Normans Conquer Constantinople? Plausibility?

I was wondering if it would be possible during the Norman-Byzatine conflicts for the Normans to conquer Constantinople.

If the Investiture Controversy is delayed and Guiscard doesn't have to return to Italy to defend the Pope, then maybe he could continue winning against Alexios?

If Alexios dies when his bodyguard is ambushed by the Normans at the Battle of Dyrrhachium?

Are either of these plausible PODs to achieve a Norman ruled Byzantine Empire?
 
I was wondering if it would be possible during the Norman-Byzatine conflicts for the Normans to conquer Constantinople.

If the Investiture Controversy is delayed and Guiscard doesn't have to return to Italy to defend the Pope, then maybe he could continue winning against Alexios?

If Alexios dies when his bodyguard is ambushed by the Normans at the Battle of Dyrrhachium?

Are either of these plausible PODs to achieve a Norman ruled Byzantine Empire?

Norwich seemed to think so, at least, he'd rule the Empire for a short time. It might fragment like it later did, but then again it might not as there was less disaffection for the Comnenians at this point.
 

Nikephoros

Banned
The Normans CANNOT take the city, but they still might be able to control it. Many Soldier-Emperors siezed control over the empire without actually breaching the cities walls. I say it is possible, but still unlikely.
 
Perhaps certain Norman mercenaries in the mould of Robert Guiscard, or indeed his older brothers whom came to Italy before he did, could have entered the service of the Byzantines decades earlier, and after a while, when one of them is posted in Constantinople, could stage a political coup, and seize the throne. Perhaps you could find a way for either William Iron Arm or Drogo to accept permanent employment with the Byzantines, having them fight in the Balkans ostensibly in return for land.
 
They need to convert to Orthodoxy though. No way the city's nobility or bureaucracy would accept a Catholic on the throne, and without them, the Empire's going to fall apart and we would just get a Norman principality of Constantinople.
 
Perhaps you could find a way for either William Iron Arm or Drogo to accept permanent employment with the Byzantines, having them fight in the Balkans ostensibly in return for land.

I find this idea the most interesting. Where the Byzantines in the habit of paying their mercenaries with land?
 
They need to convert to Orthodoxy though. No way the city's nobility or bureaucracy would accept a Catholic on the throne, and without them, the Empire's going to fall apart and we would just get a Norman principality of Constantinople.

This was the same century when the Great Schism between the eastern and western churches took place.
 
I find this idea the most interesting. Where the Byzantines in the habit of paying their mercenaries with land?

When the first Normans came to Italy in the early Eleventh Century, they initially fought under the command of the Byzantines. Along with the Lombards, the Normans were granted land in return for services rendered. The Normans, certainly, came for little other reason, and it was something that the Byzantines had to agree with, provided that the Normans accepted vassalage to them. There were other Norman mercenaries whom served the Byzantines as far as Trebizond and Armenia. During the Komnenian Restoration, there were a few noble families among the Byzantines whom were of Norman and Frankish descent.
 
They need to convert to Orthodoxy though. No way the city's nobility or bureaucracy would accept a Catholic on the throne, and without them, the Empire's going to fall apart and we would just get a Norman principality of Constantinople.

The Latin Empire managed to do it. Plus, the Great Schism was only a few decades earlier.

Even if Guiscard doesn't conquer Contsantinople, could he succeed in carving out a state in the Balkans?
 
I think it would be far-fetched for the Normans to take Constantinople. As far as being handed the throne, the whole Catholic thing gets in the way.

You could probably see a Norman state established somewhere, but it would have problems enduring unless the rulers converted to Orthodoxy. Otherwise, it would have to be in the Western Balkans where there is a Catholic population.
 
If this happens in the 1000's, I don't think that any Norman warlord who has long-term goals in the service of the Byzantine army is going to have a problem with converting to Greek Orthodoxy. At this point in time, I doubt they would see themselves as heretics. There were plenty of Normans and Franks in Byzantine service decades before the start of the Crusades. One Roussel de Bailleul, who was initially hired by the Emperor Romanus IV, would conquer Galatia with the intention of establishing himself as an independent prince. It didn't last long. He held power there between 1073-4, the Byzantines convinced the Seljuks to turn against him. And in 1057, another Frankish mercenary captain known as Herve Frankopoulos, whom served the Emperor Michael VI, led a force of 300 knights in rebellion and attempted to form a new state in eastern Anatolia before he was defeated and captured by the Seljuk Emir Abu Nasr of Ahlat.

Personally, I would say that one of the Hauteville brothers should accept a job in the Byzantine high command, and be allowed to retain territory that they capture in the Balkans against the Vlachs and the Sorbs, and rule with a limited degree of autonomy. After a generation or two, their children would become the most powerful of the Byzantine military families, and could potentially seize power from the ruling family, or at least try to become the power behind the throne.
 
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Philip

Donor
The Latin Empire managed to do it.

Um, no. The Latin Empire was created after the Crusaders took the city. Taking the city required massive naval support provided by the Venetians. I don't think the Normans enjoyed such.

Plus, the Great Schism was only a few decades earlier.

The formal schism was only a few decades earlier. The atmosphere of schism was already in place for centuries.
 
I think it would be far-fetched for the Normans to take Constantinople. As far as being handed the throne, the whole Catholic thing gets in the way.

You could probably see a Norman state established somewhere, but it would have problems enduring unless the rulers converted to Orthodoxy. Otherwise, it would have to be in the Western Balkans where there is a Catholic population.
Norman Slovenia/Croatia? That's awesome!
 
I think it would be far-fetched for the Normans to take Constantinople. As far as being handed the throne, the whole Catholic thing gets in the way.

In the 1080s, I am not sure the Catholic thing would be insurmountable, no?

Of course, for ultimate hilarity, one can envision Guiscard becoming a vassal of the Byzantine[ emperor in the 1050s, rather than turning to either the Pope or Emperor.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
With Guiscard on the throne you would have a Norman kingdom stretching from Sicily to Naples to Durazzo to Constantinople. Needless to say, this would be a formidable power in the region.

While the Constantinopolitans may be able to tolerate a Catholic emperor, there will be resentment due to the fact that Guiscard was a foreigner and would be viewed as a conqueror with little legitimate right to the throne and I'm sure conspiracies would instantly crop up to get a Komnenid (or at least a Roman) back on the throne.

One could certainly see revolts in the rural provinces, especially Anatolia. This may embolden Islamic powers who are eyeing Byzantium's eastern territories. This could exacerbate the Empire's decline.

All in all, were Guiscard successful, the Norman dynasty would most likely prove short-lived.
 
The Norman mercs in the Byzantine army could end up founding principalities in the Balkans, a series of buffer-states made with the intention of placating the Normans and Franks, as well as taking the pressure off the Byzantines so they could concentrate on the Turkish threat in Anatolia. Still, this scenario could eventually pave the way for a new Greaco-Norman Dynasty in Constantinople, or perhaps we could see, down the line, the Normans infiltration of eastern European states like Hungary or Bulgaria?!
 
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