None of the above?

WI, somehow, Napoleon doesn't become dictator & the Holy Roman Empire survives. What would Europe look like by, say, 1975?
 
Errr, Holy Roman Empire collapsed and its territory was carved up by another European powers, thus butterflying away Germany, and changing the entire course of WWI and WWII...?
It's hard to say what would happen to Europe in 1975...
 
No Napoleonic Code means Europe's entire legal development as we know it is butterflied. Britain will continue to play "divide and rule" tactics across the Continent, which means a unified Germany may well emerge as a counterweight to France, with British support. This may or may not be a fully unified and centralised Holy Roman Empire.
 
A world where Rome and France are DOMINANT!?!

The Universe will implode.

Who said anything about Rome? The original post was about the Holy Roman Empire.



If I recall correctly, the late 18th Century (where I presume the POD is) Holy Roman Empire has (more or less) the same borders as the OTL post-Napoleon German Confederation plus modern Belgium.
So some form of German nationalism emerging is reasonable. Prussia and Austria will still appear to be the dominant states, and some form of clash is likely given their history and ambitions. At the same time, Prussia has a much larger Polish population than it did later in the 1800s in OTL, so they may cause some kind of problem.

Sadly, my knowledge runs out about there. It was a very vague, likely somewhat mis-informed post, but I'll stand by it for the moment. I'm sure Susano will show up shortly and set everybody straight. ;):)
 
Hey wait, AFAIK the main cause of the emergence of German nationalism is the Napoleon's conquest of Holy Roman Empire?
Or am I wrong?
 
Hey wait, AFAIK the main cause of the emergence of German nationalism is the Napoleon's conquest of Holy Roman Empire?
Or am I wrong?
It certainly sped things up quite a bit, but with the way European philosophical & political thought was going nationalism was a certainty. might be a bit later and not as strong as OTL though. German unification remains very likely to occur. How and when is the biggest question.
 
Who said anything about Rome? The original post was about the Holy Roman Empire.



If I recall correctly, the late 18th Century (where I presume the POD is) Holy Roman Empire has (more or less) the same borders as the OTL post-Napoleon German Confederation plus modern Belgium.
So some form of German nationalism emerging is reasonable. Prussia and Austria will still appear to be the dominant states, and some form of clash is likely given their history and ambitions. At the same time, Prussia has a much larger Polish population than it did later in the 1800s in OTL, so they may cause some kind of problem.

Sadly, my knowledge runs out about there. It was a very vague, likely somewhat mis-informed post, but I'll stand by it for the moment. I'm sure Susano will show up shortly and set everybody straight. ;):)

OK whatever, I thought they were the same.

Anyway, there would be fighting everywhere.
 
Hey wait, AFAIK the main cause of the emergence of German nationalism is the Napoleon's conquest of Holy Roman Empire?
Or am I wrong?
IIRC, not just German. The French invasion(s) sparked nationalism in a lot of countries, & IMO sparked it elsewhere, too. I've half-suspected there would have been far less passion for revolution, & far less of a reaction to change, without France screwing around. Which isn't to say the French & American Revolutions didn't create a lot of tensions on their own.

That said, given HRE does splinter, wouldn't an "ethnic identity" tend to draw Germans, Poles, & so on together anyhow? Maybe into smaller states, in some cases, but together? I also wonder about the "great man" idea. I picture von Bismarck (to name somebody offhand...) being a power in whatever government he ends up in.
 
Last edited:
Prussia will have Warsaw

Russia will probably continue looking for expansion against the Ottoman Empire (rather than Finland)

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Top