Nobunaga’s Ambition Realized: Dawn of a New Rising Sun

I could see that Japan institutes a law that they could only have armies outside japan and restrictions on the navies the companies and nobles could have and the nobles base their armies and navies outside the home islands.
Any military force - even if you post them overseas - will always be dangerous once you fail or prove unable to properly check them, let alone entirely disband them.

Well, sword hunts had already been conducted, so that's one thing done.

We really need to know the philosophy & ideology that's most widespread at this point in time in order to have a better guess on many aspects of its future evolution. It had been Neoconfucianism IOTL, though unlike China, Edo period's scholarly circles have collated quite a compendium of literature questioning and even debating the nature of their state, culture, and religion that helped them be way more open-minded and flexible than how Korea and the Qing ever did IOTL.

With much less Neoonfucian influence ITTL, alongside the much-longer stay of the Portuguese and its legacy in the surviving Japanese clergy, one can say that Japan is pretty westernised already, if only that the influences up to this point had been largely Iberian.
 
Last edited:
Speaking of the last point... shouldn't Saito Yoshioki's period - with its (relative) neglect on building up military might and intensifying overseas colonisation - have made for a shorter version of this "early Edo period economy"? I can imagine him - or the retainers that he would have lavished at least - spending surplus on renovating Azuchi and other clan territories, after all.
You could say that, I mean in terms of the economy there's substantially less divergence compared to OTL in the rural areas and in the Chubu and Oshu regions so you also have regionalized trends going on, particularly the south/west vs north/east divide
Sorry to interject, but how much more prosperous is the Japanese ITTL when compared to IOTL wise? I know that it is not much more prosperous that in real terms (not proportionally) the spending on arts could be technically the same, but is the difference could be felt for people other than the upper class (other than the (just noticeably) more diversified food choice thanks to Bireitou, and just around the corner in the future, the trading with (Dutch) East Indies)?
There's a noticeable difference in urban cities, coastal regions, Ezo, western Japan in general, and in the Kanto region (the latter because no Edo).
Any military force - even if you post them overseas - will always be dangerous once you fail or prove unable to properly check them, let alone entirely disband them.

Well, sword hunts had already been conducted, so that's one thing done.

We really need to know the philosophy & ideology that's most widespread at this point in time in order to have a better guess on many aspects of its future evolution. It had been Neoconfucianism IOTL, though unlike China, Edo period's scholarly circles have collated quite a compendium of literature questioning and even debating the nature of their state, culture, and religion that helped them be way more open-minded and flexible than how Korea and the Qing ever did IOTL.

With much less Neoonfucian ITTL, alongside the much-longer stay of the Portuguese and its legacy in the surviving Japanese clergy, one can say that Japan is pretty westernised already, if only that the influences up to this point had been largely Iberian.
I wouldn't say that Japan is westernized in any sense, only that it's less Sinicized. Having said that, Chinese culture and literature are still held in high regard and regarded as important elements in Japanese society and learning, and unlike OTL Japan is a nominal tributary of the Ming dynasty and engages in more direct trade. Not to mention that ITTL there will be more cross-cultural exchanges with realms of Theravada Buddhist, Hindu, and Muslim faiths, especially those in Southeast Asia, so that will also influence Japan. In turn, Japanese culture and thought will also influence the outside world much more than IOTL.
 
You could say that, I mean in terms of the economy there's substantially less divergence compared to OTL in the rural areas and in the Chubu and Oshu regions so you also have regionalized trends going on, particularly the south/west vs north/east divide
Guess this is where we'll see the insularity that has been a characteristic of Japanese culture IOTL, and would likely have been dismissive - if not ignorant - of their more-cosmopolitan urban counterparts as well.
There's a noticeable difference in urban cities, coastal regions, Ezo, western Japan in general, and in the Kanto region (the latter because no sun Edo).
That said, don't such "strategic cities" like as Sakai, Azuchi, and Kamakura already sprawl out onto their surrounding areas as a fire-prevention measure?
I wouldn't say that Japan is westernized in any sense, only that it's less Sinicized. Having said that, Chinese culture and literature are still held in high regard and regarded as important elements in Japanese society and learning, and unlike OTL Japan is a nominal tributary of the Ming dynasty and engages in more direct trade. Not to mention that ITTL there will be more cross-cultural exchanges with realms of Theravada Buddhist, Hindu, and Muslim faiths, especially those in Southeast Asia, so that will also influence Japan. In turn, Japanese culture and thought will also influence the outside world much more than IOTL.
These are fair points. Then, I am left wondering on what schools are the most influential and prestigious ITTL, including their curriculum, ideologies, and philosophies.

However, Azuchi itself is further getting hold of a "Dutch-like capitalist" behaviour in economics thanks to their relaxed Rakuichi Rakuza trade policy and their "practically imperialistic" subjugation of the rest of Japan.

And - especially thanks to their better access towards Southeast Asia and Southern China - they have much more water buffalos ITTL that they can work with and try to adapt to colder climate, from which clans can truly start enclosing land
 
Last edited:
I wouldn't say that Japan is westernized in any sense, only that it's less Sinicized. Having said that, Chinese culture and literature are still held in high regard and regarded as important elements in Japanese society and learning, and unlike OTL Japan is a nominal tributary of the Ming dynasty and engages in more direct trade. Not to mention that ITTL there will be more cross-cultural exchanges with realms of Theravada Buddhist, Hindu, and Muslim faiths, especially those in Southeast Asia, so that will also influence Japan. In turn, Japanese culture and thought will also influence the outside world much more than IOTL.
I don't think Japan will be a nominal ally of China when China demands for Beiritou. A strong China will try to push by sea and I don't think the Japanese would allow it to happen.
However, Azuchi itself is further getting hold of a "Dutch-like capitalist" behaviour in economics thanks to their relaxed Rakuichi Rakuza trade policy and their "practically imperialistic" subjugation of the rest of Japan.
Yeah I think the Japanese would adopt to produce companies starting with the merchant class while their nobles and philosophers are more tolerant of wealth than otl.
And, - especially thanks to their better access towards Southeast Asia and Southern China - they have much more water buffalos ITTL that they can work with and try to adapt to colder climate, from which clans can truly start enclosing land
I don't think they'll really do this as Japan is too cold. I'd think we'd see river buffalos (indian/european water buffaloes) be introduced into SEA though, which would be very interesting. I think we'd also see racoon dogs be introduced into Europe earlier than otl, and other animals like coypu for the fur trade. They'd also directly sail to Mexico and Peru to exchange crops (the japanese in otl got ships to mexico in Janurary 1614 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Juan_Bautista_(ship)) and I'd think they'd have the ships to explore america.
 
Last edited:
Chapter 48: A Year of Habsburg Misfortunes

Chapter 48: A Year of Habsburg Misfortunes


The French intervention into the Spanish Netherlands completely changed the calculus of Catholic forces across Europe, especially for Albrecht von Wallenstein, who lost the 10,000 Spanish army that had joined him the previous year due to urgent orders from the Cardinal-Infante to return to the Low Countries. The Imperial Army’s supreme commander pressed on nevertheless in his endeavor to knock Saxony out of the war, sending a messenger to zu Pappenheim’s forces in the Netherlands to join up with him. Unfortunately for Wallenstein, however, the world around him reacted much faster to the French intervention, for the reinvigorated Dutch army and its leader Frederick Henry intercepted the combined Spanish-Imperial army in the Netherlands near the strategic fortress of Schenkenschans on April 15th and defeated it after a hard-fought battle. Pappenheim was left with a battered force of 10,000 men by the time he began to march towards Wallenstein’s position. Meanwhile, Gustavus Adolphus had spent the winter in Bavaria recovering from the Swedish defeat at Alte Veste, marching north in early March to rendezvous with Hessian troops led by Peter Melander besieging Hameln. It was shortly after his arrival and the hastened fall of Hameln where the king received intelligence on the recall of Leganes’ Spanish army back to the Low Countries and the French siege of Leuven. He quickly seized on this opportunity and immediately marched westwards towards Saxony and Wallenstein, who was preparing for a direct assault on Dresden, the capital of the electorate, after defeating a small Saxon army at Oschatz in April. The Swedish-Hessian army closed the gap between itself and the Imperial Army, forcing Wallenstein to the battlefield on May 1st just outside the town of Frankenberg before Pappenheim’s forces could arrive. His army of 21,000 therefore would face Gustavus’ combined force of 28,000. The Swedish king commanded the right wing while Prince Bernard of Saxe-Weimar led the left wing and the Hessians under Melander formed the center, with Frisian commander Dodo zu Innhausen und Knyphausen leading the reserves. On the Imperial side, Heinrich Holk commanded the right wing while Wallenstein oversaw the center and Bohemian commander Rudolf von Colloredo commanded the Catholic left wing.​

1zD2kgPsfs5QjOlJVIdqUv_A37yf4Of24o1RY3X2AHWQ0RKm3CXkHCBLHYAeVeAAQ5ZN9J7__d9LQbdNZGebLmagTfTimzEhhMZR2zBzQF3SLmBmAFfMLzkALquA_i5_SpWa71bnSinqS_OAc2Q96APozIwl3Eg9wtdiWWMHdiC4wN72XtUEGvgmeChtMg


Blue=Protestant, light orange=Catholic​

The battle began with exchanges of cannonfire from both sides. Then, around 11am, the Swedish cavalry led by Gustavus Adolphus advanced and quickly pushed back the Croat and cuirassier cavalry on the Imperial left. Shortly afterwards, elite Hessian and Catholic infantry regiments met in the center under heavy musket and artillery fire, while Holk took the initiative and charged upon the Swedish left. Although the Hessians initially held the upper hand, Wallenstein ordered musketeers from the back line to advance and fill the gaps, stabilizing the center once again. Similarly, the Swedish right, which was on the brink of flanking and smashing through the entire Catholic army, was halted by cuirassiers from the reserves. Although partially flanked, Wallestein’s men fought fiercely and put the battle in a stalemate in the afternoon, with Holk slowly gaining ground on the Imperial right. Around 3:00pm, observing the state of the battlr, Knyphausen ordered in the reserves and tipped the balance solidly in favor of the Protestants. The Imperial center and left collapsed quickly, with the right faring a bit better under Holk’s command. Wallenstein and his surviving forces subsequently retreated to Bohemia, having suffered 10,000 casualties compared to the Swedes’ 3,000.

After freeing occupied towns in Saxony, Gustavus Adolphus followed Wallenstein into Bohemia along with John George I of Saxony with the exception of a contingent of 10,000 led by Prince Bernard, who joined Swedish field marshal Gustav Horn in defeating Pappenheim at the Battle of Lutzen. The Protestant forces in Bohemia swept through the countryside and besieged Prague, while Duke John Christian of Brzeg-Olawa raised an army and began to occupy surrounding Silesian lands. They faced little resistance as Wallenstein refused to move decisively against them due to both the former’s numerical superiority, the need to recruit more soldiers, and the Imperial commander’s secret reservations over continuing the war. Prague would thus fall in September 1633. Wallenstein received the blame for the city’s fall and would be replaced as supreme commander of Imperial forces by heir to the Imperial throne Ferdinand Ernst. This change in command, however, failed to reverse Habsburg fortunes after Ferdinand, encouraged by subordinates like Holk and field marshal Jobst Maximilian von Gronsfeld, took the offensive with an army of 20,000 and drew the Protestants into a pitched battle at Jankau ending in another Catholic loss. 1633 drew to a close with most of Bohemia and Silesia under Swedish-Saxon control and Maximilian I of Bavaria forced to sue for peace with French mediation after continual occupation of his lands by the armies of Gustav Horn and Prince Bernard.​

UJQmWUliTOvFUV29hV5aBxDdWZTrO0tNwmeJs3ez4Ra21eCUaGHGip6qBx3uR_3oHNZe2tpI-d4KIvqZuJnk4yAHbjxvrrRTOwuwjNt3E4g6A13h_UnuT6p-g0CTVj3J7kmV6otlIWMKa0yF6QptdPVVOMJJT2TtBA7emvNf2aOi9BSwcLEE-6Sh14lv


Red line=Protestant frontline​

The Spanish Habsburgs fared better than their Austrian counterparts in Europe, although their gains from the previous year were nonetheless erased as they faced armies from all sides. Cardinal-Infante Ferdinand, joined by Leganes’ army of 10,000, managed to relieve Leuven and defeat the plague-weakened French army. However, the Cardinal-Infante’s forces were unable to pursue the French, especially with news of the Catholic defeat at Schenkenschans coming shortly after the liberation of Leuven. Despite their defeat, the French intervention distracted the Spanish long enough for the Prince of Orange to recapture Arnhelm and surrounding lands, reverting the state of the Dutch-Spanish conflict back to the beginning of 1632 by June 1633. Throughout the rest of the year, Spain was on the defensive as French armies under the commands of Henri, Prince of Conde and Charles de la Porte invaded the Duchy of Lorraine and Franche-Comte while Dutch ships blockaded the Spanish Netherlands. Pinned on multiple fronts, the Cardinal-Infante nevertheless rebuffed an attempt by Frederick Henry to retake Breda in the early fall, empowering the pro-peace party in the Dutch States-General to halt the Prince of Orange’s offensive approach and reduce war expenditures.​

rgracakEU5JbB-q19kCrOB1Myex_ARLkUGPXQwR9FgqybAxwTZbrMmD-W1-LRhOawENPCO8iWR0DtLxe87cxsBI2iKdXiMG-0TcqExqo6HjonLX_VP7P7oWUheQ6svFCwKfDm7ddMfswsKp3AOwqqb2nR84vk36f1TsFbTtuPMp8KFsWSOEUSqu-pqxkNw


Cardinal-Infante Ferdinand depicted by Peter Paul Rubens, 1635​

1633 proved to be a disastrous year for the Habsburgs, from the Protestant invasion of Bohemia and Silesia to the triumph of the Japanese-Dutch alliance in the Far East. Their struggles, as severe as they were, would only complicate when news of the Treaty of Gapan arrived in Europe in 1634.​
 
Last edited:
While I'm still hoping for the Dutch gets some lands from the Habsburgs but I also want them to be independent from France
Tbf a Netherlands that is controlled by France would be interesting but I'd think the Dutch would hate it and try to break free of it whenever possible with the German states and Britain cheering them on. Another possibility is the Dutch being part of the HRE in some way would be interesting.

I'd like to see how the Spanish Habsburgs react to being defeated by a bunch of natives in Asia, albeit ones with copied ships and cannon, especially since they lost northern Luzon and the Japanese have a route to manila, and they'd have to deal with the Japanese after 10 years. Like how would they plan for it?

Also I hope we see fort zeelandia be established as per otl, especially as a way to further trade with the Japanese and Chinese.
 
Tbf a Netherlands that is controlled by France would be interesting but I'd think the Dutch would hate it and try to break free of it whenever possible with the German states and Britain cheering them on. Another possibility is the Dutch being part of the HRE in some way would be interesting.

I'd like to see how the Spanish Habsburgs react to being defeated by a bunch of natives in Asia, albeit ones with copied ships and cannon, especially since they lost northern Luzon and the Japanese have a route to manila, and they'd have to deal with the Japanese after 10 years. Like how would they plan for it?

Also I hope we see fort zeelandia be established as per otl, especially as a way to further trade with the Japanese and Chinese.
I don't really know for this time period, but would the europeans look down on the Japanese at this moment? Their is always national pride, but looking down at them as primitives is a mentality closer to 19th century? I don't think it will be like the russia-japanese war, they probably thought that ming was the biggest problem and didn't pay attention to any of the other regional powers. Will be really interesting to see how the dutch change as a colonial nation with having an ally in asia. The alliance could maybe turn into the portugese english alliance with the level of trust and support.
 
While I'm still hoping for the Dutch gets some lands from the Habsburgs but I also want them to be independent from France
They'll probably get Frisia as well as some protestant parts of the former Spanish Netherlands and leave the Catholic parts to France since they're currently allies and neither wants a Austrian or Spanish presence in the region. As long as the Dutch keep the alliance with France (why would they break it after all? They wouldn't want to piss off Paris nor do they need to expand in Europe anymore) they won't have to worry and can focus on empire building in Asia
 
I don't really know for this time period, but would the europeans look down on the Japanese at this moment? Their is always national pride, but looking down at them as primitives is a mentality closer to 19th century? I don't think it will be like the russia-japanese war, they probably thought that ming was the biggest problem and didn't pay attention to any of the other regional powers. Will be really interesting to see how the dutch change as a colonial nation with having an ally in asia. The alliance could maybe turn into the portugese english alliance with the level of trust and support.
true I was being a bit stupid on describing it. tbf I think the Japanese and dutch would come to blows eventually due to japanese designs on the spice trade.
 
I mean, IIRC OTL Date Masamune sent an embassy to Europe, so it’s definitely not beyond the bounds of possibility.
tbf I see Japan being connected to the rest of Europe with ambassadors at least in the Netherlands for now, since they're allies. Since they won I see Britain accepting Japanese ambassadors too which would be interesting as I'd see Japan send missions to Europe.
 
Finally I caught up. So hard time for the Catholics, isn't it? I assume victory of Japan and other allies in East would be mental blow for Hapsburgs, leading to earlier end of what would become of Thirty Years War.

As for ambassadors, Japan in OTL never had opportunities for professional ambassadors. Rather, the trade negotiation was done more by administrator of each ports. Professional, permanent ambassadors existing in TTL itself make difference in Japan, especially for the development of bureaucracy.
 
Tbf a Netherlands that is controlled by France would be interesting but I'd think the Dutch would hate it and try to break free of it whenever possible with the German states and Britain cheering them on. Another possibility is the Dutch being part of the HRE in some way would be interesting.

I'd like to see how the Spanish Habsburgs react to being defeated by a bunch of natives in Asia, albeit ones with copied ships and cannon, especially since they lost northern Luzon and the Japanese have a route to manila, and they'd have to deal with the Japanese after 10 years. Like how would they plan for it?

Also I hope we see fort zeelandia be established as per otl, especially as a way to further trade with the Japanese and Chinese.
The Fort San Salvador of TTL is in the same location as IOTL's Fort Zeelandia. After the war, though, there won't be any chance of any Japanese ports leased to outsiders. The most you'll have is a "Dutch quarter" which is present in Kagoshima akin to the Venetian quarter of medieval Constantinople.
The biggest question IMO is when Japanese ships show up outside east Asia, especially if they visit Europe.
Very soon, although merchant ships and ships carrying emissaries have been around in southeast Asia and even the Indian subcontinent.
I mean, IIRC OTL Date Masamune sent an embassy to Europe, so it’s definitely not beyond the bounds of possibility.
Yeah centralized control and the tyranny of Saito Yoshioki butterflied away the career of Hasegawa Tsunenaga, although Date Masamune himself has been a part of the pro-trade expansionist faction of the government (he's still alive ITTL too).
 
I wonder if the court nobility will take charge of this, as opposed to an Oda retainer.
I'll get into this more in a future update but court nobility is actually a bit more participatory in governance and administration ITTL. For foreign delegations, however, as of now Azuchi would entrust emissary duties to samurai as they have much more interaction and familiarity the wider world compared to the relatively insular nobles.
 
I'll get into this more in a future update but court nobility is actually a bit more participatory in governance and administration ITTL. For foreign delegations, however, as of now Azuchi would entrust emissary duties to samurai as they have much more interaction and familiarity the wider world compared to the relatively insular nobles.
So, the Oda clan sought to truly rebuild the Ritsuryō system, or at least emulate Taira no Kiyomori's vision? Interesting!
 
So, the Oda clan sought to truly rebuild the Ritsuryō system, or at least emulate Taira no Kiyomori's vision? Interesting!
Not exactly, the political structure of the daijo-fu is a mixture of the ritsuryo system and shogunal government. The major differences are that class divisions are less rigid without sakoku or neo-Confucianism so while the samurai class is still politically the pre-eminent rung, court nobility and merchants are beginning to become part of the system, whether as bureaucrats/collaborators or external lobbies. This particular trend stems back into the 1620s though so it's a relatively recent development. More details to come on it in future updates.
 
Top