David bar Elias said:
Higher results for the French Communists at elections? Or the curs of the FN (the french relative of the BNP...)?
No war in Vietnam
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Higher results for the French Communists at elections? Or the curs of the FN (the french relative of the BNP...)?
Wendell said:The French would be as fond of L'Etat-Unis in TTL as they are of the L'Etat-Unis in OTL 2006
Again, the current cold between teh two countries is exagerated, btw.
The Ubbergeek said:France don't hate America, man. Don't listen to teh common 'wisdom'.
They are just annoyed at the typical american ignorance and selfishness that the country leaders all too often shown.
France would still hold such an attitude toward the U.S. as a result of the pressure imposed to give up Indochina.Of course, THAT would give their TTL relations a cold shower...
Maybe it would make France think twice about Algeria... What was the official position of the USA about it? They said something ever on the subject?
Maybe it would make France think twice about Algeria... What was the official position of the USA about it? They said something ever on the subject?
I doubt San Francisco would be much more conservative....with Johnson's Great Society programs (which included urban renewal), SanFran would remain pretty liberal.
Johnson was extremely popular until Vietnam exploded (which affected most everything else). Johnnson was trying to deliver guns and butter. LBJ couldn't do both.
Tielhard
Banned
Count Dearborn,
"So, Ho Chi Min got his audience with Wilson in 1919?"
As a completely irrelevant aside: My old local (pub) in West London used to employ Uncle Ho as a dish washer way back when. The residents have been trying to get one of those blue London tourist plaques to commemorate the fact for twenty years.
"So, Ho Chi Min got his audience with Wilson in 1919?"
As a completely irrelevant aside: My old local (pub) in West London used to employ Uncle Ho as a dish washer way back when. The residents have been trying to get one of those blue London tourist plaques to commemorate the fact for twenty years.
Well, there are a couple of reasons. First, if the US hadn't decided to screw around with the French or Diem, there wouldn't be a division of the country. Hence no war.Wozza said:
Second, at least according to Sheenan (Bright Shining Lie), Ho and company actually were busy in the late 50s with the "socialism in one country" model. Collectivization had come close to shattering the North, so they weren't looking for trouble. The earlier analogue is Stalin seeking to maintain the peace of Europe in order to have time to purge the society. Communist Terror doesn't go well with a major international war.
Meanwhile in the South, the Viet Mihn (Viet Cong was mainly an American term) were facing such pressure from Diem's campaign against them that they felt they had to strike. Once the southern campaign began, Ho and Giap felt that they had to support their comrades or risk losing control.
If the southerners hadn't been as threatened or if Diem had managed to push them harder (and hadn't screwed over the rest of the population in the process), the North might not have intervened and focused on problems closer to home.
Tielhard
Banned
"in OTL North Vietnam have win.Were is the domino?"
In OTL Vietnam liberated itself from foreign occupation and reunited itself once again but you were close enough. The domino was depending upon your perspective either a big red bogey man or an excuse for USA Imperialism. An ATL in which the Red Army marches past the Whitehouse and salutes the Gen. Sec. whilst singing the Inernationale is unlikely as hell but amuses the hell out of me.
In OTL Vietnam liberated itself from foreign occupation and reunited itself once again but you were close enough. The domino was depending upon your perspective either a big red bogey man or an excuse for USA Imperialism. An ATL in which the Red Army marches past the Whitehouse and salutes the Gen. Sec. whilst singing the Inernationale is unlikely as hell but amuses the hell out of me.