No war in Korea. Which changes in America?

We assume that the Korean war not happen (because Stalin not gieves the green light to Kim Il Sung, or for other reasons).
The point is,without the Korean conflict which changes we have in domestic policy,military strategies,pop culture in United States?
Changes little or very much compared to OTL?
 
Eisenhower's presidential campaign was predicated on his ability to end the war, so you'd have a different president in 1953. The war and the integration of the armed forces also had a big impact on the Civil Rights movement, which would probably be delayed by at least several years. Don't really know what the pop culture impact would be, presumably there would be no MASH.
 
Eisenhower's presidential campaign was predicated on his ability to end the war, so you'd have a different president in 1953. The war and the integration of the armed forces also had a big impact on the Civil Rights movement, which would probably be delayed by at least several years. Don't really know what the pop culture impact would be, presumably there would be no MASH.


Wouldn't Ike have still been popular for his role as Allied commander in WWII? He could probably win an alternate 1952 election based on "Remember D-Day!" or something similar. Well, that and "We like Ike" is just so catchy! :)
 
Might Truman have been viable in 52 in such circumstances.

Also without the huge military expenditure in Britain might Labour have stayed together and won in 1951?
 
Eisenhower's candidacy was opposed by many conservatives in the Republican Party. Without the Korean War to make military expertise the most relevant factor, the GOP campaign would have been focused entirely on opposition to the Democrats' economic policies. The natural standard-bearer for such a campaign would have been Robert Taft, who mounted a strong resistance to Eisenhower even in OTL. The absence of a Korean War could also result in a different Democratic ticket. Truman might remain popular enough to run for a third term, which he was entitled to do.

Without the Korean War, relations between the USA and the PRC would be less antagonistic, which would leave the PRC in a stronger position vis-a-vis its neighbors. In the first place, the ROC would most likely collapse due to a lack of American support. With a stronger PRC, and a resulting impression of east Asian stability, the US would be tempted to disengage from the region, to delegate the dirty work to the local superpower, and in particular to avoid direct involvement in Indochina. The US may treat Beijing as it treats Moscow, allowing the PRC to exercise a Soviet-style hegemony over its neighbors. Just as the US never considered invading Poland or Albania in OTL, in this timeline it would be a geopolitical impossibility for the US to invade Vietnam or Cambodia.

With a strong PRC locking up continental east Asia in its sphere of influence, US interventionism would have to find an outlet in the Middle East, South Asia, Africa, or perhaps the Americas. Instead of an unpopular war in Vietnam, there might be one in Biafra, Egypt, or Cuba. With the focus taken off the Pacific, these conflicts would have the potential to attract American attention and blow up into much larger wars. Just imagine if the United States sent troops to aid West Pakistan against India and Bangladesh.
 
If the Korean War did not start in 1950, I have to believe that it would start at some point. Kim Il Sung will want to unite Korea under the communist banner at some point. If Moscow refused to support him he will turn to China to support him and his invasion of the South. You could see a Chinese "volunteer" army supporting the initial invasion, then the butterflies really start flapping!
 
Eisenhower's presidential campaign was predicated on his ability to end the war, so you'd have a different president in 1953. The war and the integration of the armed forces also had a big impact on the Civil Rights movement, which would probably be delayed by at least several years. Don't really know what the pop culture impact would be, presumably there would be no MASH.

Truman ordered the desegregation of the armed forces in 1948, so I'm not entirely sure about that. An America focused inward instead of external threats might speed up the Civil Rights movement.
 
IMO Korea did three things for the US:
  • it showed an integrated military could perform well, if properly led, equipped, and supplied.
  • It showed America that full demobilization from WWII was impossible IF it wants to be global hegemon.
  • It allowed the US to feel it wasn't alone in protecting victims from Communist aggression.
As Hollis mentioned upthread, w/o Korea as index case for the Cold War, a more isolationist USA focusing on making the peacetime economy work instead of foreign adventures has a ton of butterflies.

IMO the Taft-Hartley Act did a lot to start the erosion of workers' rights.
Strikes paralyzed the US economy in 1946. Republicans and Dixiecrats deplored the state of affairs, which led to Truman having a much closer re-election fight in 1948 with Dewey than you'd expect.

I've speculated that Truman had the best chance to get UHC off the ground in his administration b/c folks trusted the government to act for the common good then AND the cost of changing wasn't affecting 25% of the economy as it is now.

Butterflying McCarthy's Red Scare would do a lot to avoid the break with Red China AND a sensible recognition of the Viet Minh government. HCM was friendly to the US. Pretty easy slam-dunk to get him and the VM on-side.

The Chinese Communists were very skeptical of American motives for a variety of reasons, but some adept diplomacy and economic aid agreements would have made the 1974 reapprochement happen a LOT earlier to considerable mutual benefit.

So for the tl;dr crowd- US economy grows a bit more organically w/o the stimulus of military-industrial complex, focus on addressing economic inequality makes life better for wide segment of US population, US Cold War meddling doesn't piss off 3/4 of the planet.
 
neither McCarthy or the red scare is wholly butterflied. In OTL his wheeling speech was before Korea and so was the start of the Hollywood witch hunb
 
No bases in Europe and no draft.

Actually NATO was already forming, and the US still had occupation forces scattered around Europe. Mostly in Germany, with a few in other nations.

..and the draft was still existant, putting a trickle of conscripts into the US Army

IMO Korea did three things for the US:
  • it showed an integrated military could perform well, if properly led, equipped, and supplied.
  • It showed America that full demobilization from WWII was impossible IF it wants to be global hegemon.


  • In June 1950 the US had exactly one 'combat ready' division and a few seperate regiments that were combat ready. Secretary of Defense Louis Johnson represented a large & disparite group who sought to reduce the US Army and Navy to token forces designed to follow up after the USAF bombed any enemy to dust. The Admirals Revolt of 1948 stalled that effort, and the first months of the Korean War showed the bankruptcy of Johnsons policy. Had the Korean War not occured there would have continued reductions in force of the US Army and Navy, leaving the US even more unprepared for a war when it did finally occur.
 
The point is,without the Korean conflict which changes we have in domestic policy,military strategies,pop culture in United States?

Changes little or very much compared to OTL?

OTL, Korea was the first actual "hot" moment in the Cold War.

Without it, large scale U.S. rearmament is stretched out over the next several years and may never get as large. There's been no actual fighting at all. Also, the Air Force retains a larger share of defense spending.

That impacts the economy and other things.

Politically - Truman is more viable in 1952, and may not withdraw. Eisenhower may not run, if he doesn't think he's needed to end a war.

Athletically - Ted Williams doesn't go back in the Marine Corps, and has 1.7 more great seasons (he played 6 games in 1952 and 37 in 1954). The Splendid Splinter might have reached 3,000 hits and 2,000 RBI. The Red Sox would be in contention in 1953, but they still don't win the pennant.
 
Japanese economic miracle is slower and the rehabilitation of Japan and West Germany is delayed.

In Britiain Labour would probably win the 1951 election and could well win again in 1955. There's no Suez.

South Korea and North Korea have border clashes as normal but no US presence.

Maybe the US intervenes directly at Dien Bien Phu. North Vietnam never happens. Instead a united pro western Vietnamese government backed by French troops and US airpower fights a long drawn out guerilla war with a Chinese backed Viet Minh. The war could last into the 80's by which time it would be entirely Vietnamized.

US military becomes more dependent on nuclear weapons with a much smaller army. The US Navy is smaller and maybe the super carriers don't get built and the battleships stay in permament retirement.

Truman would probably run in 1952. Eisenhower would not run against a sitting President when there was no good reason to do it.

Defence budgets stay around 5% of GDP and this would have positive effects on budgets but maybe negative effects on employment in many industries that benefitted from high defence spending.
 
In Britiain Labour would probably win the 1951 election and could well win again in 1955.

Highly unlikely. By 1950, Labour had squandered whatever popular goodwill they had gained from the NHS etc. The massive schemes of rationing and other intrusive and burdensome state interventions had alienated lots of people.

Labour barely survived the 1950 election, and would not make it through the 1951 election. If anything, Korea helped Labour by establishing them as anti-Communist.
 
..and the draft was still existant, putting a trickle of conscripts into the US Army

It's been a while since I looked into this, but didn't the draft law at the time have rapidly-approaching sunset provisions, and was really, really unpopular? My memory is that it was only the Korean War that led to a long-term draft bill passing.
 
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