No W-An Alternate 2000s TL

[LouisTheGreyFox]

Since we are currently in July 14, 2008 in this timeline, I am still eleven and probably caring about world politics. Though I must say, due to Rick Santorum's strict control on the media, many cartoons in OTL would come out differently in this TL as most of the creator's would have moved to Canada, Australia, or Europe.

Well the creators of South Park fled to Canada so yeah pretty much.

So yeah now I think of it I probably bet Stephen Hillenburg probably fled to Canada too since a lot of conservative parents saw (still do) Spongebob as a homosexual character, so 100% Santorum went after that show and probably had it destroyed. So if Hillenburg was able to perhaps with all of Nick (which again I doubt all of Nick) probably fled overseas to continue broadcasting and making cartoons that aren't censored.

 

[Gillan1220]

Well the creators of South Park fled to Canada so yeah pretty much.

So yeah now I think of it I probably bet Stephen Hillenburg probably fled to Canada too since a lot of conservative parents saw (still do) Spongebob as a homosexual character, so 100% Santorum went after that show and probably had it destroyed. So if Hillenburg was able to perhaps with all of Nick (which again I doubt all of Nick) probably fled overseas to continue broadcasting and making cartoons that aren't censored.

Here are my favorite shows that may have been cancelled, fled somewhere, or completely butterflied away:

• Codename: Kid's Next Door - probably banned since it shows kids resisting tyrannical adults and teenagers. Frothy could draw analgoues to the KND as the New Continental Army
• Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy - BANNED because of its supernatural theme that Frothy would see as Satanic. This means Scooby Doo is transferred somewhere while Gravity Falls is completely butterflies away
• Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends - could have been transfeered. Frothy would ban it because he will draw parallels that imaginary friends are demons
• Samurai Jack - probably cancelled as Frothy would draw similarities that Samurai Jack is the NCA while Aku is him.
• Phineas and Ferb - could have also been butterflied away unless Dan Povemire moved somewhere far. Even if it saw the light, it would have been banned as Frothy would see the brothers as a symbol of defiance to authority

 

[Colonel Zoidberg]

Here are my favorite shows that may have been cancelled, fled somewhere, or completely butterflied away:

• Codename: Kid's Next Door - probably banned since it shows kids resisting tyrannical adults and teenagers. Frothy could draw analgoues to the KND as the New Continental Army
• Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy - BANNED because of its supernatural theme that Frothy would see as Satanic. This means Scooby Doo is transferred somewhere while Gravity Falls is completely butterflies away
• Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends - could have been transfeered. Frothy would ban it because he will draw parallels that imaginary friends are demons
• Samurai Jack - probably cancelled as Frothy would draw similarities that Samurai Jack is the NCA while Aku is him.
• Phineas and Ferb - could have also been butterflied away unless Dan Povemire moved somewhere far. Even if it saw the light, it would have been banned as Frothy would see the brothers as a symbol of defiance to authority

It also may butterfly away a lot of the dystopian young adult novels later turned into movies. I’m audiobooking the Hunger Games trilogy, and there’s no way a tyrannical asshole like Santorum allows that. It would encourage rebellion and defiance of authority, and it’s chocked full of symbols a potential rebellion could use (protesters in Thailand actually used Katniss’ three-finger gesture.)

 

[TRH]

It also may butterfly away a lot of the dystopian young adult novels later turned into movies. I’m audiobooking the Hunger Games trilogy, and there’s no way a tyrannical asshole like Santorum allows that. It would encourage rebellion and defiance of authority, and it’s chocked full of symbols a potential rebellion could use (protesters in Thailand actually used Katniss’ three-finger gesture.)

By the same token, there'd definitely be no Twilight with its sympathetic vampires.

 

[Tales Weaver]

How would post-frothy America will look like? It will be ironic if it looks like post-saddam iraq.

 

[Gillan1220]

How would post-frothy America will look like? It will be ironic if it looks like post-saddam iraq.

Messy, that's all we can say. I'm not sure if the civil war happened at all but we might see it soon for the future of this TL.

 

[QuinnMallory]

Obviously you haven't read beyond the first post.

He clearly hasn't read a lot of things he should have. President Gore wouldn't have invaded Iraq and maybe not even Afghanistan.

 

[QuinnMallory]

The Horror Begins

"Eh..... We have some planes. Just stay quiet, and you'll be okay. We are returning to the airport"

Transmission from American Airlines Flight 11, 08:21, September 11, 2001


"This just in. You are looking at obviously a very disturbing live shot there. That is the World Trade Center, and we have unconfirmed reports this morning that a plane has crashed into one of the towers of the World Trade Center. CNN Center right now is just beginning to work on this story, obviously calling our sources and trying to figure out exactly what happened, but clearly something relatively devastating happening this morning there on the south end of the island of Manhattan. That is once again, a picture of one of the towers of the World Trade Center."

Carol Lin, CNN News


"At the time of the September 11 attacks, President McCain was giving a speech at the dedication of the USS Forrestal Museum in Baltimore. After being informed that two planes had crashed into the World Trade Center, McCain immediately boarded Marine One, which had been parked on the flight deck of Forrestal, and departed for Washington DC. The flight took 13 minutes.

Now, when Marine One attempted to land on the White House lawn, the flight crew-apparently under intense pressure due to the circumstances-botched the final approach and entered a vortex ring state, causing the helicopter to stall and crash. All onboard were killed, including President McCain."

Testimony of former Secretary of State Donald Rumsfeld to the Sotomayor Commission, November 29, 2011


MCCAIN KILLED IN HELICOPTER CRASH, VP CHENEY SWORN IN AS PRESIDENT

New York Times, September 11, 2001

"My fellow Americans, I am saddened to announce that President McCain has died in a helicopter crash. So far, no evidence has emerged connecting the crash to the attacks that have just happened to our nation.

Although I never expected to ascend to the highest office in the land under these circumstances, I will do my duty as required of me. Together, we will find the people responsible for the cowardly attack on our people and bring them to justice."

President Richard Cheney's address to the nation, September 11, 2001

My two cents is that a better President, one who wasn't thinking like a Cold Warrior and/or actually got competent underlings, might actually have prevented 9/11. Bush and his crew, right up to the attacks, were focused on defense from supposed Russian and Chinese threats: as an example of this, one reason fighters couldn't get into position to shoot down the third and fourth planes in time was that they were all hundreds of miles out over the ocean in a giant exercise. Clinton's people had been looking into Muslim extremists and al Qaeda, with his support, and (as was part of the reason for the PATRIOT Act) the FBI and CIA had the info to catch the hijackers, but just didn't put the puzzle pieces together. In fact, the military under Clinton considered bin Laden enough of a threat to plan an operation to attack a compound where he was, which Clinton vetoed because he thought it would get too many American soldiers killed (hindsight always 20/20). Everyone assumes that 9/11 is inevitable: I'd say for the reasons above that a President McCain or President Gore could have averted it.

 

[Gillan1220]

My two cents is that a better President, one who wasn't thinking like a Cold Warrior and/or actually got competent underlings, might actually have prevented 9/11. Bush and his crew, right up to the attacks, were focused on defense from supposed Russian and Chinese threats: as an example of this, one reason fighters couldn't get into position to shoot down the third and fourth planes in time was that they were all hundreds of miles out over the ocean in a giant exercise. Clinton's people had been looking into Muslim extremists and al Qaeda, with his support, and (as was part of the reason for the PATRIOT Act) the FBI and CIA had the info to catch the hijackers, but just didn't put the puzzle pieces together. In fact, the military under Clinton considered bin Laden enough of a threat to plan an operation to attack a compound where he was, which Clinton vetoed because he thought it would get too many American soldiers killed (hindsight always 20/20). Everyone assumes that 9/11 is inevitable: I'd say for the reasons above that a President McCain or President Gore could have averted it.

But the Hamburg Cell was already planning it since January 2000. The final plan was made in Kuala Lumpur before the Al-Qaeda terrorists headed to America under toursists or PR Visas before Bush dies in this TL.

Russia and China in 2000-01 definitely was not in the position to make threats to America, though the EP-3 Hainan Incident likely still happens as OTL.

And you are right. Clinton did try to kill Osama bin-Laden using cruise missile strikes in Afghanistan and Sudan in August 20, 1998 following the U.S. Embassy attacks but it failed because OBL wasn't in the targeted sites.

 

[QuinnMallory]

But the Hamburg Cell was already planning it since January 2000. The final plan was made in Kuala Lumpur before the Al-Qaeda terrorists headed to America under toursists or PR Visas before Bush dies in this TL.

Russia and China in 2000-01 definitely was not in the position to make threats to America, though the EP-3 Hainan Incident likely still happens as OTL.

And you are right. Clinton did try to kill Osama bin-Laden using cruise missile strikes in Afghanistan and Sudan in August 20, 1998 following the U.S. Embassy attacks but it failed because OBL wasn't in the targeted sites.

1. Doesn't mean it couldn't have been stopped. If the planning had been that far back, it just adds more time for someone competent to put the pieces together.
2. I completely agree with and understand that. Bush and his crew did not.
3. Yes, showing that Clinton's people were convinced OBL was a major threat. If the President-elect hadn't been the type to assume that anything Clinton says is pointy-head liberal nonsense, the intelligence they had could have been taken seriously.

 

[Gillan1220]

1. Doesn't mean it couldn't have been stopped. If the planning had been that far back, it just adds more time for someone competent to put the pieces together.
2. I completely agree with and understand that. Bush and his crew did not.
3. Yes, showing that Clinton's people were convinced OBL was a major threat. If the President-elect hadn't been the type to assume that anything Clinton says is pointy-head liberal nonsense, the intelligence they had could have been taken seriously.

Do you think this memo about Bin Laden a month before 9/11 will still be released?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Ladin_Determined_To_Strike_in_US

 

[TRH]

1. Doesn't mean it couldn't have been stopped. If the planning had been that far back, it just adds more time for someone competent to put the pieces together.
2. I completely agree with and understand that. Bush and his crew did not.
3. Yes, showing that Clinton's people were convinced OBL was a major threat. If the President-elect hadn't been the type to assume that anything Clinton says is pointy-head liberal nonsense, the intelligence they had could have been taken seriously.

Thing is, I don't entirely chalk the Bush Administration's tunnel vision surrounding non-state actors to Bush and his inexperience. The very experienced Cheney and Rumsfeld were equally complicit. It seems like it's more of a neorealist thing, where they assumed that only states matter and that terrorists can only be effective with state support, hence the immediate rush to condemn Iraq for 9/11 IOTL. So the question is less about experience or willingness to listen to what Clinton hands had to say, and more about how much the new Administration buys into Mearsheimer. Would McCain be any better in that regard, especially while inheriting Cheney and other OTL Bush hands?

 

[QuinnMallory]

No way that's going to pass. Freedom of expression is pretty deeply ingrained in America.

Also, even if it passed, all it would accomplish is the first major 9-0 Supreme Court ruling in a while.

 

[Arthur Marston]

I wonder how Gen Z will look back at the 2000's and perhaps early 2010's once they reach adulthood by late 2010's and early 2020's. Surely a lot of us of Gen Z are probably going to remember nothing but a lot of fucked up things that happened in the world especially in the US with what happening to LGBT community who are being sent to camps to be cured. Surely I wonder if Gen Z might end up fighting for the rights of the LGBT or are sadly already been brainwashed by society to see them in negative light.

Eh, we can infer from the "Sotomayor Commission" snippets that Santorum's reign of terror lasts less than a decade, not really long enough to fully indoctrinate the young'uns.

 

[Gillan1220]

I'm planning to start a Photos from No W-An Alternate 2000s TL thread to give a visual graphics aid of how the world of No W looks like.

What do you think guys?

 

[Arthur Marston]

I'm planning to start a Photos from No W-An Alternate 2000s TL thread to give a visual graphics aid of how the world of No W looks like.

What do you think guys?

I say go for it.

 

[Gillan1220]

I say go for it.

Thank you. I will start it ASAP.

Edit: You can contribute here.

 

[Arthur Marston]

New update.

In comparison to the Democratic convention, the Republican National Convention, held at the Xcel Energy Center in St. Paul, Minnesota from August 1-4, was far less eventful. Santorum, still paralyzed but now sounding far more coherent, and Lott were easily renominated for President and Vice President respectively. Various Religious Right activists, like Douglas Coe and Gary North, gave speeches praising the Santorum administration's efforts to "reestablish Christian influence in America's public sphere."

However, some observers noticed some tension between Santorum and Lott. While Santorum had made significant strides in his recovery from the attempt on his life, it appeared that Lott wasn't quite willing to go back to being his number two. This would be the source of much trouble later on.

Chris Hedges, Santorumstan: Life Under American Theocracy, 2012

 

[President Eternal]

Sounds like there's going to be infighting in Frothy's administration. Glad to hear that.

 

[27zipski]

New update.

Praise be!