No Vietnam war,what effects?

We assume that the US intervention in Vietnam
has never been (why and how is not important here).​


So we are in 1965,Lyndon Johnson is the President,and he have not the war get in the way.
What would have happened?​
 

Sachyriel

Banned
In America you can watch cute animals with TV. In Soviet Australia you can be watched by animals behind a cute TV.
 
Well, to examine the lack of a Vietnam Conflict it's VERY important how it's avoided. A popular possibility is Eisenhower's assistance with the French repression of the Indochinese rebellion at Dien Bien Phu. The French maintain control of Indochina (for a short time) but eventually it is shifted over to native control and becomes a larger republic of its own... after that anything's fair game.

In the US, I guess it's debateable whether or not Eisenhower's popularity spikes or drops because of the intervention. In America, Johnson could concentrate on his Great Society and Civil Right's Issues. Both of these could eventually make Johnson out to be one of our greatest Presidents, giving Nixon a tough fight in 1968 if Johnson chooses to run for reelection.

Although, with the assassinations of both Martin Luther King Jr., Malcolm X, and Robert Kennedy, butterflies might cause the riots to break out (or maybe the assassinations to not even take place). Either way, I think a Republican victory is in order in 1972. The Democrats would be popular... but it would be waning after 12 years of Democrat rule. I'd say Nixon in 1972... but a Watergate affair still in effect.

As the leader of the conservative Party, he'd want to make sure nothing gets in his way of losing the election. He skims by... whether or not the Affair is uncovered in 1974 is anybody's guess. If it is... then probably a Vice President assumes the Presidency, or if not then the Speaker of the House. Deciding this fact (again, butterflies) would probably turn the Election of 1976. Or you could take the West Wing way out and have the Democratic Speaker call a special election in 1974 and shift the Presidential election by 2 years.

A one term Nixon and a two term Johnson would have far reaching effects. I suppose it's possible to see Johnson opening to China. Nixon would have a hard fight in '72 without Vietnam to scare people into voting for him. If there's a united Indochina Republic, Nixon (or Johnson) could open relations with the country to make sure that Ho Chi Min's Communists don't take (full) control.

My 2 cents. The major problem with this is that Vietnam caused such an upheaval in American society that taking it away creates a huge historical vacuum. I'm sure there's plenty of people who can add to this idea.
 
Well, to examine the lack of a Vietnam Conflict it's VERY important how it's avoided. A popular possibility is Eisenhower's assistance with the French repression of the Indochinese rebellion at Dien Bien Phu. The French maintain control of Indochina (for a short time) but eventually it is shifted over to native control and becomes a larger republic
Ok. I like this.
The most important thing is that the Vietnam war has never been.
This is the preliminary.
In America, Johnson could concentrate on his Great Society and Civil Right's Issues. Both of these could eventually make Johnson out to be one of our greatest Presidents.
This is very interesting.
How this can change the United States and the world in a long period?
And what about at the economy in a timeline without Vietnam war?
 
The inflation of the early Seventies would probably have happened later. There still would probably have been an energy crisis in the mid-Seventies which would have affected Johnson's successor (Humphrey or Muskie, assuming the Republicans lost in '72). On the plus side there might have been more money for the space program and a lot of NASA's ideas (like Dynasoar or the Manned Orbital Laboratory) might have gotten funding.

Foreign policy probably wouldn't be an issue until at least the Yom Kippur War and then the Middle East might see a Vietnam-type situation-a proxy war over oil?

The Great Society would eventually be challenged by the Republicans over its cost to the taxpayers. A conservative revival still would have taken place in the late Seventies.

Without Vietnam there would be no Rambo movies or A-Team in the Eighties; the characters on Magnum P.I. wouldn't be Vietnam veterans...the counterculture probably would have had a smaller impact and been more like the Beatnik movement of the Fifties-more underground and not as long-lasting as it was in OT.
 
The inflation of the early Seventies would probably have happened later. There still would probably have been an energy crisis in the mid-Seventies which would have affected Johnson's successor (Humphrey or Muskie, assuming the Republicans lost in '72). On the plus side there might have been more money for the space program and a lot of NASA's ideas (like Dynasoar or the Manned Orbital Laboratory) might have gotten funding.

I have to disagree on this. I don't think the economics would be changed as much as you think. The whole reason the Great Society never happened was because all the money that would've gone into it was sucked into Vietnam. Without Vietnam, the Great Society has a chance at happening (whether it succeeds is another thing) although I think for the purpose of alternate history (or until someone does the research and the numbers) I think we should assume that the Great Society costs the same but with more positive domestic effects.

I do like the ideas about the space program. Maybe part of the Great Society?

Foreign policy probably wouldn't be an issue until at least the Yom Kippur War and then the Middle East might see a Vietnam-type situation-a proxy war over oil?

I like this idea.

The Great Society would eventually be challenged by the Republicans over its cost to the taxpayers. A conservative revival still would have taken place in the late Seventies.

Which gives me confidence that even a two term Johnson would give way to Tricky Dick in 1972. Unless we go with a scenario that the Great Society is a HUGE success. In which case, Kennedy, Humphrey, or Muskie would be elected in 1972. Although, given the ambitions of the GS, I'd say a Nixon victory in '72.

This is very interesting.
How this can change the United States and the world in a long period?
And what about at the economy in a timeline without Vietnam war?

The world would be a different place... but not too different. What would be the most interesting would be the Civil Right's movement. With a lot of southern whites and blacks still in the states who would otherwise be drafted, could more pro- and anti- segregation leaders rise up and swing the movement to more or less violence?

I like WVR's idea about the counterculture. Still, given the enormity of it, I doubt it'd burn out so fast. I think it'd smaller at first, but it'd grow at a slow pace so it's barely noticeable until the '70s. Vietnam made it burn long, hard, and strong. It also made the counterculture burn out.

The economy, assuming the GS goes through, roughly the same. But Johnson's war on Poverty might change all that with an increase in jobs or welfare. Either or.
 
Don't forget that about 58 thousand Americans live - that creates a huge knock on effect
Well, it would definately be part of the butterfly effect of such a big change, but in the short term the lack of social upheavel caused by the war will be a much bigger effect than the loss of a statistically insignificant number of people. Of course, if one of those people goes on to do something major with their life...

As others have said, how the Vietnam war is avoided is important; this is an era where it's political suicide to appear to be too soft on Communism after all.
 
But what about LBJ without the war?
Great society work and change the United States?
Johnson run and win in 68?
And most important thing how change the 70s in this timeline?

SuperLyndon.jpg
 
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I think a lack of Vietnam experince hurts the US military. Vietnam was important in changing US Army, Air Force, Navy, Marine mindsets. Plus I think we see slower development of weapon systems created in the 80s. As a result the Soviets stay at par tech wise with US forces in Europe and elsewhere.
 
On the plus side there might have been more money for the space program and a lot of NASA's ideas (like Dynasoar or the Manned Orbital Laboratory) might have gotten funding.
Dyna soar was cut by McNamara in 1963,
But without Vietnam is probable that MOL Is not cancelled.
Apollo application program (AAP) is also probable that stay.

the counterculture probably would have had a smaller impact and been more like the Beatnik movement of the Fifties-more underground and not as long-lasting as it was in OT.
This is sure.
The counterculture 50s/early 60s size scenario is the most probable in this timeline.
 
Lyndon Johnson would have gone down as one of America's better presidents and be remembered for the Civil Rights Act which he is only now being given credit for. The Great Society may well have come about possibly with the vestiges of a health service and a lot of American lives would have been saved.

He would have been succesfully renominated as the Democrat candidate in 1968 as his challengers were largely anti-war candidates. Would the republicans have fielded a hawk if South Vietnam had collapsed. This scenario would have made a better challenge than Nixon?

Vietnam may well have ended up much the same, a speedier victory for the North possibly in Ho Chi Minh's lifetime and Vietnam today would not have been much different than it is i.e a capitalist economy where Labour in controlled. A good place for the multinationals to invest
 
Lyndon Johnson would have gone down as one of America's better presidents and be remembered for the Civil Rights Act which he is only now being given credit for. The Great Society may well have come about possibly with the vestiges of a health service and a lot of American lives would have been saved.

He would have been succesfully renominated as the Democrat candidate in 1968 as his challengers were largely anti-war candidates. Would the republicans have fielded a hawk if South Vietnam had collapsed. This scenario would have made a better challenge than Nixon?

Vietnam may well have ended up much the same, a speedier victory for the North possibly in Ho Chi Minh's lifetime and Vietnam today would not have been much different than it is i.e a capitalist economy where Labour in controlled. A good place for the multinationals to invest


The mystique of LBJ the Great would have been even greater then this, for it's very possible that he would have died during his 2nd term (OTL he died on 1/22/1973, only 2 days after the end of what would of been his 2nd term) from a heart attack.


If LBJ had defeated Nixon in '68 who would have been the frontrunners for the GOP nomination in '72? If he ran, would HH Humphrey, as Vice President or as President be able to defeat his GOP challenger in '72?
 
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