no Vietnam - alternate US presidents

Archibald

Banned
How realistic is that ?

- JFK killed in '63, but not Diem
- Diem barely hold South vietnam together until 1966, long enough that no US intervention ever happens
- LBJ re-elected in 68 over a much lighter context
- he dies in 69 or 70 from a heart attack
- VP Humphrey become president
- and the 1972 democrat candidate
- only to be beaten by Reagan, that gets re-elected in 76
- the 1980 election should eventually see a swing toward a democrat
- I liked Mo Udall, but after 1976 he had Parkinson or Alzheimer (unfortunately )
- could a surviving RFK have two terms, 1980 - 88 ?

Don't be too harsh - it is just a tentative political background for a an eventual space TL I may post... or not...
 
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Lalli

I don't believe that surviving Diem change much if anything. He was very unpopular in Vietnam.
 

JVM

Archibald said:
How realistic is that ?

- JFK killed in '63, but not Diem
- Diem barely hold South vietnam together until 1966, long enough that no US intervention ever happens
- LBJ re-elected in 68 over a much lighter context
- he dies in 69 or 70 from a heart attack
- VP Humphrey become president
- and the 1972 democrat candidate
- only to be beaten by Reagan, that gets re-elected in 76
- the 1980 election should eventually see a swing toward a democrat
- I liked Mo Udall, but after 1976 he had Parkinson or Alzheimer (unfortunately )
- could a surviving RFK have two terms, 1980 - 88 ?

Don't be too harsh - it is just a tentiative political background for a an eventual space TL I may post... or not...
Click to expand...

Who is the Republican nominee in 1968 and who is the Democratic nominee in 1976? And yeah, a surviving RFK could give it a shot, as could Jerry Brown, Walter Mondale, or George McGovern.
 
Plumber

Plumber

It's realistic. Good outline, though the lack of Diem will probably only delay Vietnam for a bit. Even so, that's enough to butterfly LBJ into winning again.
 

Archibald

Banned
thank you folks. I figured the Republican nominee in '68 might be Nixon himself but of course he might chose not to face a LBJ in a much better shape than OTL. Whatever, I need a "cannon fodder" republican (think of Goldwater in '64) to lose to LBJ in '68. :p Can Romney Sr. do the trick ? or Rockefeller ?
As for the democratic nominee in '76 - that's a excellent question ! I'd like to have Udall facing Reagan, what a debate that might be. Perhaps a very narrow Reagan victory...

As for Diem, I have not much affection for that S.O.B, I just need him to butterfly U.S involvement in Vietnam. I would have no issue with Diem being swept away by a Tet-like offensive circa 1966 or 67, and Vietnam becoming communist once and for all, just 10 years before OTL. Kudos if that can result in Pol Pot violent death somewhere down the line, and save the lives of 3 million cambodians...

According to Wikipedia

Upon learning of Diệm's ouster and assassination, Hồ Chí Minh reportedly stated: “I can scarcely believe the Americans would be so stupid.”[67] The North Vietnamese Politburo was more explicit:
“The consequences of the 1 November coup d'état will be contrary to the calculations of the U.S. imperialists ... Diệm was one of the strongest individuals resisting the people and Communism. Everything that could be done in an attempt to crush the revolution was carried out by Diệm. Diệm was one of the most competent lackeys of the U.S. imperialists ... Among the anti-Communists in South Vietnam or exiled in other countries, no one has sufficient political assets and abilities to cause others to obey. Therefore, the lackey administration cannot be stabilized. The coup d'état on 1 November 1963 will not be the last.”[67]
​
After Diệm's assassination, South Vietnam was unable to establish a stable government and several coups took place after his death. While the U.S. continued to influence South Vietnam's government, the assassination bolstered North Vietnamese attempts to characterize the South Vietnamese as supporters of colonialism
Click to expand...
 
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Lalli

I bit doubt that Goldwater would has any changes for main candidate of Republicans on '68. Rockefeller or Romney might be possible.
 
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