No ummayyads

Khanzeer

Banned
Let's suppose Prophet Muhammad decided to sentence to death
Abu sufyan his sons yazid and muawiyah
Hakam and his son Marwan
After conquest of Mecca
Not surprising given the harsh treatment muslims suffered under these people and probably well received by his companions


How would this effect
Tribal politics during pious caliphate?

And
How would pious caliphate progress after let's say othman is elected , with no major ummayyad relatives to patronize how will his reign proceed ?

Who will fill the void ?
 
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To many butterflies, especially as according to the accounts the war between Muhammed's followers and the Meccan powerful families was settled by a negotiated settlement.

The POD would have to be an overwhelming Medinan victory where there is no need for compromise and you just changed the early development of Islam. For a start, the Caliph that oversaw the transcription of the Koran is now not around.

Even sidelining the Meccan aristocracy at some later date, such as with Ali victorious, changes to much, as would either extending or cutting short the Ummayyad century.
 
Let's suppose Prophet Muhammad decided to sentence to death
Abu sufyan his sons yazid and muawiyah
Hakam and his son Marwan
After conquest of Mecca
Not surprising given the harsh treatment muslims suffered under these people and probably well received by his companions


How would this effect
Tribal politics during pious caliphate?

And
How would pious caliphate progress after let's say othman is elected , with no major ummayyad relatives to patronize how will his reign proceed ?

Who will fill the void ?


This would have huge butterflies on the progress of early Islam. Muawiyah and Yazid bin Abu Sufyan both played important roles in the conquest and administration of Syria.

If Abu Sufyan's sons were killed then Abu Jahl's would've been killed as well, and Ikrimah bin Abu Jahl also led Muslim armies against Musaylamah and into Palestine.

A PoD to avoid Ummayads might be if Muawiyah gives the Caliphate to Hasan bin Ali as promised instead of passing it onto his own son.
 

Khanzeer

Banned
This would have huge butterflies on the progress of early Islam. Muawiyah and Yazid bin Abu Sufyan both played important roles in the conquest and administration of Syria.

If Abu Sufyan's sons were killed then Abu Jahl's would've been killed as well, and Ikrimah bin Abu Jahl also led Muslim armies against Musaylamah and into Palestine.

A PoD to avoid Ummayads might be if Muawiyah gives the Caliphate to Hasan bin Ali as promised instead of passing it onto his own son.
but many other tribal leaders could have arguably filled those shoes

the yemenis did very well against persians in iraq, giving the makhuzmis , banu zuhra , ansar and yemeni tribes more of a stake in the conquest of syria was entirely possible

plus a few early convert ummayyads like Khalid b Saeed could have stayed as regional commanders of the Futuhat
 
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Khanzeer

Banned
To many butterflies, especially as according to the accounts the war between Muhammed's followers and the Meccan powerful families was settled by a negotiated settlement.

The POD would have to be an overwhelming Medinan victory where there is no need for compromise and you just changed the early development of Islam. For a start, the Caliph that oversaw the transcription of the Koran is now not around.

Even sidelining the Meccan aristocracy at some later date, such as with Ali victorious, changes to much, as would either extending or cutting short the Ummayyad century.
even if Ali is victorious in siffin I doubt he could completely exclude the ummayyads from power at that time

mawiyah or one of his ummayyad kin still stays in syria and as part of a settlement amr b a'as would get some part of egypt

Ali's problems are many
1-Hijaz where his real core of supporters i.e Ansar , are is too distant , poor and has a very small population relative to syria and iraq

2-After Jamal , Iraq would never entirely unite behind ali and esp after nahrawan

3-his supporters in iraq were divided after his mismagement of the arbitration crisis

4-Muawiyah had far more wealth to spend to bribe his enemies and buy supporters than Ali was willing to spend

5-The syrian -iraqi rivalry went beyond the personality clash of Ali-Muawiyah
 
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