No Tigers, Just Panthers and Panzer IVs

As the title says what if the Germans had stuck to just the Panzer IV and Panther tanks while cutting down on the other 'unnecessary' armoured vehicles?

How does this effect the war?
How do the allies respond?
How many can Germans produce than in OTL?
 
Numbers built:

Tiger I: 1,347

Panzer IV(all variants): 8,553

Panther: 6,000

T-34(all variants): 84,070

KV-1: 5,219

M4 Sherman: 49,234

Cromwell: 4,016

Comet: 1,186

So the overall impact of deleting the Tiger is likely to be minimal.
 
the Panther is probably the main culprit. The tiger I though more complex than it should be, was essentially a low production heavy tank that impacted logistics fairly minimally. The Panther was a failure prone, maintenance heavy resource hog, and was produced in comrapable numbers to the more workmanlike Panzer IV.

A simpler 30ton medium tank to replace the PIV, or just continuing the PIV production with improvements would have given greater numbers of tanks overall, and more tanks actually making it to battle. Perhaps an extra two thousand medium tanks, with a better availability rate.
This gives the germans some more options in the latter phases of the war, but probably doesn't change things over muct. At this point Soviet and western allied production vastly overmatches them in both offensive tank units, and reactive anti-tank units.

It might mean a large tank battle on the western front, or another on on the eastern
 
*waits for the usual declarations about various VK series tanks being made instead*

In truth just going MOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!!!! but with a German accent does not really help. The Germans were running out of oil and manpower and just building more tanks gobbles up both limited resources at a higher rate.

In reality the Tiger was built in such low numbers that it was barely a blip.
 
Okay so it wouldn't have helped at all? Both panther and Panzer were medium tanks the former was just rushed before it was ready.
Stuggs and wespe spgs are still made.
 

Jack1971

Banned
What the Germans needed was a standard, easy to manufacture, operate and maintain medium tank, designed for winter operation. That means Germany needs a T-34.
 
What the Germans needed was a standard, easy to manufacture, operate and maintain medium tank, designed for winter operation. That means Germany needs a T-34.

Apparently this was actually discussed and this did result in this design

321843-Berserker.jpg


The VK 3002 DB (might as well get it in before the wehr's do.

But apparently this idea of 'T-34 but with Made In Germany stamped on its arse' was refused for reasons of national pride.
 
Pride did play a part another was Germany's experience of using the Christie suspension system it's performance was disappointing.
 

Jack1971

Banned
Apparently this was actually discussed and this did result in this design

321843-Berserker.jpg


The VK 3002 DB (might as well get it in before the wehr's do.

But apparently this idea of 'T-34 but with Made In Germany stamped on its arse' was refused for reasons of national pride.
But it needs to be made instead of the III and IV, so this takes some prewar thinking.
 

Jack1971

Banned
Pride did play a part another was Germany's experience of using the Christie suspension system it's performance was disappointing.
Skip Christie, go with exterior bogies, like the Sherman. Easy to repair beats the improved mobility of Christie or overlapping wheels.
 
But it needs to be made instead of the III and IV, so this takes some prewar thinking.

Nope, this was designed as a counter/clone to/of the T-34 so they'd need to encounter it first go "Fuck that's actually good..." and then get its clone authorized (which is the hard part). It would be probably built in leiu of the Panther, the Tiger was already well under development pre-war and was built as a breakthrough tank.
 
Which makes you wonder why they took so long with ironing its problems. Could the panther have been better than the tiger?
 
I think a major issue with german AFV production was a mistiming. The germans managed to build two fairly effective and mass produceable late 30s 20ton medium tanks, when pretty much everyone else was still making thing slike the Vickers 6 ton or the Matilda.
The problem was that subsequently everyone got their shit together and built effective mass produceable 30ton medium tanks that were jsut flat out more effective.

To the german weapons procurement system it msight ahve seems a logical step to try and leapfrog the allies to a 40ton medium tank that would overmatch their competition, especially since they knew they couldn't outproduce their opponents. Of course this was a mistake.
 

Jack1971

Banned
Nope, this was designed as a counter/clone to/of the T-34 so they'd need to encounter it first go "Fuck that's actually good..." and then get its clone authorized (which is the hard part). It would be probably built in leiu of the Panther, the Tiger was already well under development pre-war and was built as a breakthrough tank.
And that’s why the German tank would not be the VK 3002. However, Germans should have been aware of the Soviet A-20 tank designed from 1937, with prototype in summer 1939.

And sloped armour and easy to produce designs shouldn’t take a Nazi rocket scientist to figure out.
 
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