No Spanish Civil War in 1936 (my new Timeline)

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by Dr. Strangelove, Mar 11, 2008.

  1. Rich Rostrom Well-Known Member

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    Mar 21, 2012
    Location:
    The heights of glory, the depths of despair
    True, eventually. Wallace was not the complete Red dupe that he is sometimes portrayed as.

    In 1948, well after most Americans had shed that wartime illusion about the USSR; Wallace was still gripped by it.

    Wallace was the figurehead for a Presidential campaign run by Communists. Its primary function was as a mechanism for spreading the idea that all the conflicts between Communists and others in Europe (and elsewhere) were due to reactionaries and fascist hangovers opposing the democratic will of the people - and that the U.S. must not support the anti-Communist side in these battles.

    For example, Wallace condemned U.S. aid to the government of Greece, under attack from Communist guerrillas. He also attacked the Marshall Plan. He also argued that the U.S. was at fault for any conflicts with the USSR, and opposed the Berlin Airlift.

    In other words, Wallace's campaign advocated "good relations with the Soviets" by letting the Soviets have whatever they wanted.

    Even Eleanor Roosevelt saw him as a Communist dupe at that time.

    By the 1950s, Wallace had figured out what was really going on, and admitted he had been wrong.
     
  2. bm79 Citoyen Louisianais

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    Location:
    New Orleans, Louisiana
    A bump just because, every few months, this thread deserves to be on the front page so that those who have recently joined can experience a masterpiece of writing.
     
  3. Tsar of New Zealand The idle man's perfectionist Donor

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    Ennui to the left of me, burnout to the right
    Another halfhearted bump from someone who recently stumbled upon this awesome thread. Hope you can get back to us soon, Doc :)
     
  4. SGallay Must have been built in the sixties

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    Location:
    Geneva, Switzerland
    Also count me in the crowd of new readers to this awesome timeline.
     
  5. bm79 Citoyen Louisianais

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    Location:
    New Orleans, Louisiana
    I think Dr. S got stuck with a combo of real life and a block in developing the war to its end.

    Dr S: Come back to us! Wrap up the war in a quick couple of vague updates and move on to the après-guerre. With all the hints you gave us throughout the YEARS (God we're all getting old) this TL progressed leaves me to believe you had that much better laid out than the War itself.

    Arise, dear Timeline, arise!
     
  6. Dr. Strangelove a very bad, bad person

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Thank you everyone for taking the time to read all this monster, and even more for appreciating it! :)

    I feel kind of guilty for having abandoned it right after a massive cliffhanger (what are those italians up to in Berchtesgaden?), but I wrote that at a time when I was really busy, and I never really had the time to pick it back up. And, after 3 and a half years, I felt a bit burned.

    Right now I have finished college, found a fulltime job, and what little time I have left, I take it into reading and writing publishable things (and it's going to get worse if I get into a relationship...), so I am afraid I really wouldn't have much time to keep writing NSCW at the extent I had envisioned it.

    Maybe (but I can't promise anything), I could try to write until the end of WWII, if I found the time.

    in any case, I am very happy and flattered that people keep enjoying this so many years after I began writing it. :)
     
  7. Goldstein By the way, it is Goldstein. Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2006
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    St. Neots, Cambridgeshire, Anglo-Spanish Empire
    I'm sad to hear that. Will we get at least, should the update ever come, some more details about the postwar World? We can already get a very general picture, but I was thinking about something like a Spanish presidential list, and most importantly, what the heck happened in 1987. I've lived with the intrigue for years. Finally, I would love to make, someday, a NSCW World map, if you are Ok with that.
     
  8. jotabe1789 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2011
    Oh well, that's sad, but it was an excellent ride while it lasted :)
    Thanks for this TL!
     
  9. SGallay Must have been built in the sixties

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    Jun 18, 2013
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    Geneva, Switzerland
    I can sympathize with Real Life (and the Internet) getting the way of writing projects. All the best!
     
  10. Archangel Battery-powered Bureaucrat

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    Nov 14, 2007
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    Portugal
    Real life is the most important, but I hope you will be able to update it in the future.:)
     
  11. EmmettMcFly55 Well-Known Member

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    Mar 16, 2009
    Location:
    Kingdom of the Netherlands
    I can't speak for the author, of course, but aren't there already plenty of NSCW world maps in this thread? I'll admit that they aren't all of optimal quality, but they're still NSCW world maps.
     
  12. Goldstein By the way, it is Goldstein. Banned

    Joined:
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    Location:
    St. Neots, Cambridgeshire, Anglo-Spanish Empire
    I meant a postwar one with alliance systems. A four-sided Cold War, one which includes byzantine European politics and an ideology that doesn't exist IOTL? Tell me that doesn't just ask for a map.

    Anyway, those are not days of hope, but of mourning.


    Atraviesa la muerte con herrumbrosas lanzas,
    y en traje de cañón, las parameras
    donde cultiva el hombre raíces y esperanzas,
    y llueve sal, y esparce calaveras.

    Verdura de las eras,
    ¿qué tiempo prevalece la alegría?
    El sol pudre la sangre, la cubre de asechanzas
    y hace brotar la sombra más sombría.

    El dolor y su manto
    vienen una vez más a nuestro encuentro.
    Y una vez más al callejón del llanto
    lluviosamente entro.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2013
  13. bookmark95 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2014
    How many Jews remain in Europe?

    I know you haven't updated in a while, but I enjoy your alternate history a lot. I am curious as to the remaining population of Jews in Europe.

    You said at one point the Holocaust death toll in ITL was 50% OTL. So there were 3 million more Jews remaining in Europe. What are the remaining jewish populations in Europe?

    I did the calculation of the Jewish populations of that Naza Pact countries, because in your timeline they stayed out of the war.
    http://history1900s.about.com/library/holocaust/bldied.htm

    Here is what I figured out:
    Country Jews Killed
    Greece 65000
    Hungary 550000
    Italy 7500
    Romania 270000
    Yugoslavia 60000
    Death Toll OTL: 952500

    So almost a million Jews are saved in Eastern Europe because these countries don't go to war in the ITTL. How about the rest of that surviving Jewish population?

    In Poland alone three million Jews died in the OTL. So how is it that the jewish population lasted much longer than it did in ITTL?

    I doubt that the Zara pact countries would open themselves to Jewish immigration.

    In OTL many of these countries were already enacting anti-Jewish legislation that only intensified after the start of World War 2.

    I know in the OTL, Bulgaria was of few nations whose government made every effort not to collaborate in the Final Solution in their own country, but they still established many anti Semitic laws, and in the part of Macedonia they occupied, they deported thousands of Jews living there to death camps.
    http://strangeside.com/holocaust-bulgarian-jews-spared/

    So, can you explain the policies of the Naza Pact countries in regards to Jews, as well as the numbers of survivors in Eastern Europe?
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2014
  14. Milarqui Bloguero de Historia Alterna

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Location:
    Between Madrid and Granada
    OK, it's been quite a long time since we last heard from Dr. Strangelove, and that we got an update on this.

    However, it should not be the death of it. We already have a TV Tropes page, and, Internet (and muse) willing, at 12 PM CEST time (in about 18 hours, more or less), No Spanish Civil War In 1936 will prominently feature in my blog, Ucronía Lallena, as another wonderful example of how funny and interesting Alternative History can be. If you read Spanish, you can access it through the link in my signature. If you want to read it in English, wait two weeks, as that's the time that passes between a post in the Spanish blog and the English one.
     
  15. Dr. Strangelove a very bad, bad person

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Holy shit, thank you! :) I am flattered about this, really.

    Unfortunately I can't promise you anything about continuing NSCW in the foreseable future, as I have other literary projects in the works, of the publishable kind. :(
     
  16. Rebecca Ashling Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Hello, Dr Strangelove! Just finished reading this timeline and I greatly enjoyed it. But it ended on a mystery: what are Italian doing in the Berchtesgaden?
     
  17. Goldstein By the way, it is Goldstein. Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2006
    Location:
    St. Neots, Cambridgeshire, Anglo-Spanish Empire
    I thought for a split second that this had been updated and I almost fainted. I don't think I've ever enjoyed a TL as much as this one. I don't think at this point that it will be continued (And if it is, GLADIO should be recorded as the biggest cliffhanger ever), but I don't mind at all. I could never repay how much pleasure it gave me to read it.
     
  18. Japhy Second Best Poster on the Site

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    Feb 17, 2007
    Location:
    Albany, New York
    Don't do this.
     
  19. Dr. Strangelove a very bad, bad person

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    May as well reveal it after all these years.

    GLADIO is Ciano's Get out of Gulag Free card, and it is basically a surprise attack on retreating german forces. Italian forces retreating across Hungary must either make their way back to Italy or Italy-alligned Yugoslavia and engage retreating germans if possible, italian Alpini are advancing on the alpine passes, and the Berchtesgaden op is basically Ciano getting leverage in the form of the whole nazi leadership, including Hitler himself.