No Sale of Alaska to US

[Thermopylae]

What would have happened if Alaska had not been sold to the US? It isn't that hard, in fact, to imagine this PoD. Seward was among the few proponents of the purchase of Alaska, and he was almost killed on the same night Lincoln was shot. All one has to do is make it so that Seward dies, and at least in theory, Alaska remains in the Czar's hands.

I first thought of this idea when I just couldn't get to sleep one night. Somehow (although I don't quite remember how I got to this conclusion) either the U.S. or British Empire ends up siding with the Axis powers in WWII, all as a result of not purchasing Alaska. I only wish I remembered how I came to that conclusion. What I do remember is that the Allies of WWI helped the Czar to flee to Alaska, where he enjoyed an OTL Taiwan-like status. Alaska was the seat of the recognized Russian government, at least for some time. It became either a British or American protectorate...

But anyways, what do you think would have arisen had Russia retained Alaska?

 

[NapoleonXIV]

Most recent manifestation of this is here There are several others

Perhaps Alexander sees the frozen tundra as a farther Siberia, and perfect for resettling fractious serfs and others. The brother of one Vladimir Ilyich is hired as a manager for czarist business interests in the area and so not interested in assassinating Alexander, thus never arrested and executed. His brother thus never becomes the embittered Lenin but is instead hired to replace his brother when he dies in Alaska. When gold is discoverd in 1900 Ilych becomes the main advocate and then leader of the project for the extension of the Trans Siberian Railway to Fairbanks, via the Bering Strait Bridge.

 

[CalBear]

... When gold is discoverd in 1900 Ilych becomes the main advocate and then leader of the project for the extension of the Trans Siberian Railway to Fairbanks, via the Bering Strait Bridge.

Now THAT would be one hell of a piece of engineering!

 

[Wendell]

I like the idea of the Tsar's government fleeing to Alaska when the Communists take over in Russia. The Communists make a deal with Alaska fearing what the U.S. would do if North America was invaded. Tsarist Alaska concludes a secret treaty with the Poles in the mid-1930's, and when the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact becomes effective, Alaska, having built up its military since the 1920's, declares war on the U.S.S.R.

 

[SkyEmperor]

What about the Russo Japanese war? Japan would have seen the islands as a fantastic place to settle. They would have military bases in North America, gold, a large population to utilize, and plenty of land to settle for themselves. How would the US and British Empire respond if Japan tried to annex the islands?

 

[Wendell]

What about the Russo Japanese war? Japan would have seen the islands as a fantastic place to settle. They would have military bases in North America, gold, a large population to utilize, and plenty of land to settle for themselves. How would the US and British Empire respond if Japan tried to annex the islands?

The Monroe Doctrine would be in play.

 

[MerryPrankster]

The Monroe Doctrine would be in play.

But the Japanese are not a European power.

Of course, I would imagine the MD would get amended real fast.

 

[Wendell]

But the Japanese are not a European power.

Of course, I would imagine the MD would get amended real fast.

That it would. This really has the potential to knock out the Japanese colonial Empire in its infancy.

 

[Arachnid]

Then again how come the Monroe doctrine was okay with Russian, i.e. European presence in North America.

 

[carlton_bach]

Then again how come the Monroe doctrine was okay with Russian, i.e. European presence in North America.

It predates the doctrine. THe idea was to send a signal to European powers that the US regarded the independent (then newly and shakily independent) states of Central and South America as its friends, protectorates and sphere of influence. It was never designed to declare war on all European powers with an existing colonial stake in the Americas.

 

[DuQuense]

One of the reasons for selling Alaska to the US, was to prevent Great Britian from getting it. Great Britian had offered to buy Alaska. If the US turns Russia down, it is likely GB would continue the attemps to buy it.

 

[El Berto]

If GB buys Alaska, could it be possible to have nowadays a Commonwealth state, just like OTL Canada or Australia? Or Alaska being now a Canadian province?

 

[Tyr]

Now THAT would be one hell of a piece of engineering!

He didn't say it would stay up

 

[Martel]

If GB buys Alaska, could it be possible to have nowadays a Commonwealth state, just like OTL Canada or Australia? Or Alaska being now a Canadian province?

More likely, Alaska would be part of the Yukon Territory, or possibly a territory in its own right. It's hard to say if Alaska would grow to its present population under Canadian rule. After all Canada has no shortage of Arctic land and it's even more lightly populated than Alaska.

As fas as tsarist Alaska goes, I would just point out that there is nothing in Alaska that cannot be found in Siberia. Its only really advantage over Siberia is that it has some excellent harbors in the Prince William Sound area. That might make it attractive to Japan or possibly Britain, but not Russia which wouldn't have a decent port in Europe to import from Alaska.

 

[SkyEmperor]

It predates the doctrine. THe idea was to send a signal to European powers that the US regarded the independent (then newly and shakily independent) states of Central and South America as its friends, protectorates and sphere of influence. It was never designed to declare war on all European powers with an existing colonial stake in the Americas.

Okay, so how would the US feel about a colony in the americas getting switched from one power to another?
I dont think there is mauch of a historical precednt. Suppose TR was still in office, despite any possible butterflies. Would he be willing to go toe to toe with Japan over Alaska? He might try to negotiate Alaskan independence instead of having one of the powers control it.

 

[SkyEmperor]

It predates the doctrine. THe idea was to send a signal to European powers that the US regarded the independent (then newly and shakily independent) states of Central and South America as its friends, protectorates and sphere of influence. It was never designed to declare war on all European powers with an existing colonial stake in the Americas.

Okay, so how would the US feel about a colony in the americas getting switched from one power to another?
I dont think there is mauch of a historical precednt. Suppose TR was still in office, despite any possible butterflies. Would he be willing to go toe to toe with Japan over Alaska? He might try to negotiate Alaskan independence instead of having one of the powers control it.

 

[Wendell]

The Americans could still end up with Alaska. It is known for settling (other people's) sparsely-inhabited areas.

 

[Nicole]

The Americans could still end up with Alaska. It is known for settling (other people's) sparsely-inhabited areas.

But why Alaska? It's a frozen ice box- there were Yukon gold rushes as well, and that didn't result in the US gaining Yukon.

 

[Wendell]

But why Alaska? It's a frozen ice box- there were Yukon gold rushes as well, and that didn't result in the US gaining Yukon.

True, but Yukon was already nominally claimed by the British in 1867.

 

[Saladin]

If GB buys Alaska, could it be possible to have nowadays a Commonwealth state, just like OTL Canada or Australia? Or Alaska being now a Canadian province?

In what you envisage, Alaska would be a Canadian Province -- or perhaps as many as 2 or 3. The logic is the same as the absorbtion of Newfoundland by Canada in 1949 -- contiguous borders


Chris