No Portuguese Royal Family in Brazil

What if following the Napoleonic invasion the Portuguese Royal Family escapedto London and not to Brazil. How would Brazil develop? And the nationhood of Brazil?
 
I believe the Portuguese Royal family would prefer Brazil since it was the most important part of the Portuguese territories not threathened by Napoleonic France.
 
I'm not sure about going to London, but they could have chosen to stay. The first French invader army was quite weak, and the Portuguese could have stopped their advance at least time enough to allow reinforcements from Britain to come.
 
Well, the regent king sent a party to welcome the french, so I'm not seeing they staying at Portugal. Besides, going to the Brazil ment Portugal was still independent because the King was still in command (just not in Portugal), so I think thay wouldn't give up on that status.
But, if they didn't went to Brazil all the things from opening the ports to international trade to the construction of infrastructures wouldn't happen. Brazil would be kept as a colony with no real sense of unity and without any kind of development.
 
I think it was a mistake of the Braganza's, to try to reduce Brazil to colonial status after living there since 1808. They should have done what Austria later did with Hungary.
 
I think it was a mistake of the Braganza's, to try to reduce Brazil to colonial status after living there since 1808. They should have done what Austria later did with Hungary.

The problem was that they had basically done that, but Brazil was wealthier, had a higher population base, and was more respected on world politics, so if they hadn't tried to re-colonize Brazil, Portugal would have ended up a Brazilian colony!
 
What I meant was that the Braganza's should have given Brazil the status of an independent Kingdom, and given it's obvious advantages over the mother-country, have it become the permanent home of the Royal Family (although a few of them should maintain a presence in Portugal as well).
 
Weren't the Braganza's, but the Parliament after the Constitutional Revolution of Porto. And the Braganza's, as a family, were pretty inteligent: the absolutism had fallen in Portugal, but with Dom Pedro I in Brazil, the absolutism continued in America under another Braganza.
 
So, if John IV or Prince Pedro were to create a parliament in Brazil, would that gain the approval with the existing parliament in Portugal, or would they oppose this?
 
So, if John IV or Prince Pedro were to create a parliament in Brazil, would that gain the approval with the existing parliament in Portugal, or would they oppose this?

I doubt they would allow that. If IOTL the Portuguese Courts decided to reduce Brazil again to the status of colony (even if there were allowed a few Brazilian MPs in the Courts), why would they accept other Parliament?

I think the best solution would be the creation of a Brazilian Parliament before the Portuguese one. Let's say that something goes wrong with the Liberal Revolution of Porto in 1820. The Portuguese Parliament is not formed, and the Braganzas stay in Brazil. But the idea of a Parliament still crosses the Atlantic (IOTL John VI needed to make sure to a crowd in Rio that he would respect the Constitution the Portuguese were doing in Lisbon).

John VI is pressed by the Liberals in Rio to accept a Constitution and the creation of a Parliament. He approves that, and the Brazilian Courts are formed. Some time later a similar Parliament is formed in Lisbon, but the Brazilian one is already a reality. The Portuguese must accept it or face the complete independence of Brazil.
 
If this ever came to pass, would this breath new life into the Portuguese Empire? Give them some newfound stability at least?
A dual kindom/Empire would have a stronger economic and populational base, but also a greater diversity and there would have to be a great authonomy for each constituing part.
 

maverick

Banned
Portuguese Congo would be interesting, they could link the colonies of Angola and Mozambique near IOTL Rhodesia...

An odd thought just occurred to me...

If the Royal House remained in Brazil and ruled their empire from Rio de Janeiro, making Portugal a dependency, we could teoretically see an independist revolution in Portugal which might or might not give us an earlier Republic of Portugal and a surviving Empire of Brazil...

Now, had the Braganzas stayed in Portugal or went to London instead, a "balkanized" Brazil is a possibility, with Pernambuco, the Riograndese Republic, the northern Provinces, etc...declaring independence along with a Brazil centered around Sao-Paolo-Rio de Janeiro...
 
An odd thought just occurred to me...

If the Royal House remained in Brazil and ruled their empire from Rio de Janeiro, making Portugal a dependency, we could teoretically see an independist revolution in Portugal which might or might not give us an earlier Republic of Portugal and a surviving Empire of Brazil...

This is worth a TL...:p;)

Now, had the Braganzas stayed in Portugal or went to London instead, a "balkanized" Brazil is a possibility, with Pernambuco, the Riograndese Republic, the northern Provinces, etc...declaring independence along with a Brazil centered around Sao-Paolo-Rio de Janeiro...

I'm just not so sure about the Riograndense Republic. If the Braganzas had never came to Brazil then probably the territory of Rio Grande do Sul would be smaller, without the territories we conquered during the invasion of the Banda Oriental in 1811. Many of the causes of the war of 1835 would probably not exist.

Maybe a weaker Brazil (because the focus of the Braganzas would still be Portugal) could lead to an alternate Argentina reconquering all the territory of the Jesuitic Missions that were acquired by the Portuguese (well, Sao Borja was sieged by troops of Artigas in 1816, so it's not so unlikely).
 
The Portuguese-Brazilian Empire. I could see them participating strongly in the "Scramble for Africa".
They would probably participate in greater strength and at a quicker pace.

Portuguese Congo would be interesting, they could link the colonies of Angola and Mozambique near IOTL Rhodesia...
It could work:).



If the Royal House remained in Brazil and ruled their empire from Rio de Janeiro, making Portugal a dependency, we could teoretically see an independist revolution in Portugal which might or might not give us an earlier Republic of Portugal and a surviving Empire of Brazil...
Without a parliament, or with a weak parliament, that might happen after a reasonable time because of the Crown being able to send more troops to quell the unrest, although republicanism would take a long time to take hold.
It would be more likely to see stronger Absolutist and radical liberal movements. Time works against Absolutism, and the support would eventually, after several decades, go to a strengthened radical liberalism (Vintistas/Setembristas) or moderate liberalism (Cartistas). The Vintistas would be winners in the long term, picking eventually a more liberal Braganza Prince (or one of its cadet branches). Portugal could become an earlier Republic or stay as a separate Kingdom in the scenario of an independentist revolution in Portugal, depending on how the liberals could solve the problems of the country.
Things might even end (after Absolutist ideas lose strength) with the radical and moderate factions inside the Vintistas becoming the dominant parties, and Cartistas and Republicans as minor/medium-sized parties or factions inside the major parties.

This is worth a TL...:p;)
I feel the same too.:);)
 
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