NO Paris commune effects on world

lookinf at previous thread si found many on the survival of the Paris commune, but none on the effects of a non existent Paris commune.

How this is achieved is not massively important to me, let's say Franco Prussian war is stalemate and Alsace Lorraine is not taken.

What effects do no Paris commune have on the first and second international socialist movements.

Will anarchists be expelled as they were in 1872? Will Marxism become as dominant without the example of the Paris commune?

I have ideas but I was hoping someone more versed in socialist history could help me out.
 
lookinf at previous thread si found many on the survival of the Paris commune, but none on the effects of a non existent Paris commune.

How this is achieved is not massively important to me, let's say Franco Prussian war is stalemate and Alsace Lorraine is not taken.

What effects do no Paris commune have on the first and second international socialist movements.

Will anarchists be expelled as they were in 1872? Will Marxism become as dominant without the example of the Paris commune?

I have ideas but I was hoping someone more versed in socialist history could help me out.


I'm kinda think that the absence of the
Commune would have little effect. It was
a model for the socialists but it seems they
didn't follow it; the right just looked back @
it with horror but they didn't need the Commune to hate the Socalists; they had
plenty of other reasons! Nor do I think it's
absence would have kept the Anarchists in
the international. As the late, great Barbara
Tuchman pointed out in her excellent THE
PROUD TOWER(1966, ch.2)the anarchists
refused to believe in organization while the
Socalists insisted you had to have it. This
split would still have been there, Commune
or no Commune- & because the anarchists
refused to budge on this issue & thus were
expelled.
 
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Yeah, this causes more effects than no Paris Commune

I know but the point is to just look at the effects on the socialist international and left wing movements. Looking at all the results of no Paris commune would be a massive task and probably get bogged down in some detail not relating to socialism.

Well,...I would have never written my TL. :angel:

Joho :)

Have you posted that TL yet I'd love to read it :)
 
Blanqui was the architect of the dictatorial model of communism. Without the 1870 Commune, while I fully expect that while he would still be an influential figure, it would not be to the same extent. This has all kinds of effects on later communism, such as more ideological diversity.
 
I know but the point is to just look at the effects on the socialist international and left wing movements. Looking at all the results of no Paris commune would be a massive task and probably get bogged down in some detail not relating to socialism.

Wouldn't it be easier to pick a POD that doesn't affect the war? Uprisings need charismatic figures, so you just need to get rid of some people and you get no Paris Commune which... honestly I don't think affects much of the thought on communism (the biiiig socialist movement) or syndicalism (which never really took off but I always thought was intellectually interesting and might have gotten somewhere if Western Europeans didn't start making concessions to the peasants... I mean commoners to keep them from going hungry, which removed a large stake they had in political activism)
 
I know but the point is to just look at the effects on the socialist international and left wing movements. Looking at all the results of no Paris commune would be a massive task and probably get bogged down in some detail not relating to socialism.



Have you posted that TL yet I'd love to read it :)

Pre-1900 Forum: "Rubber, Republicans, Revolutionaries, and a Young man named Bonaparte, Oh My!" It's 44 pages long starts in 1871 and is complete through 1898. I'm just starting to create the alternate year 1899...takes lots of time & research with all of the changes that have occurred in the World so far in this TL and with real life issues (my new job)...it gets hard sometimes:cryingface:.

P.S. I started a private conversation with you & went into a bit more detail regarding the story there than I did here...long day & I'm really tired.

One person who read it so far (Bmao) said it took him a day and a half to read the whole thing from start to finish. He said that he enjoyed it.

Joho :)
 
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Vader4.0

Banned
No commune would have Europe have less afraid of communism, the commune caused European heads of states to be worry about communism/anarchy. A example is the nations in Europe post defeat of napoleon were afraid of napoleonic/republic beliefs and tried to wipe out memories/reminders and return to the Europe of pre French Revolution,no commune would mean no radicalization of communism/anarchy or the attempt by countries to try to do to the commune what they did to napoleonic /republicans beliefs causing it to become popular to the people who dislike current governments increasing spread of communism/anarchy .in my opinion the more you attempt to stop beliefs/ideas the more possibility that it spreads.
 
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No commune would have Europe have less afraid of communism, the commune caused European heads of states to be worry about communism/anarchy. A example is the nations in Europe post defeat of napoleon were afraid of napoleonic/republic beliefs and tried to wipe out memories/reminders and return to the Europe of pre French Revolution,no commune would mean no radicalization of communism/anarchy or the attempt by countries to try to do to the commune what they did to napoleonic /republicans beliefs causing it to become popular to the people who dislike current governments increasing spread of communism/anarchy .in my opinion the more you attempt to stop beliefs/ideas the more possibility that it spreads.

But if there is a communist state at some point then it becomes inevitable that people are going to be very afraid of it. One exception might be if the communist state is a small and not very powerful country, where it can possibly be ignored, but if it's something big like the Soviet Union, then people will be very, very afraid of it. Hence why communism was often referred to as Bolshevism, mainly out of fear of the Soviet Union.
 
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