No Norman conquest of Sicily/Southern Italy

I have seen a lot of threads on here about the Norman conquest of England failing, but what if the Norman conquest of Sicily/Southern Italy fails or never happens in the first place? How might Italian/Sicilian culture, language, and religion change?
 
Sicilian would probably have more Arabic loanwords.

As to southern Italy, that really depends on what happens with the Byzantines, the local south Italian states and how long Muslims hold on to Sicily.
 
I have seen a lot of threads on here about the Norman conquest of England failing, but what if the Norman conquest of Sicily/Southern Italy fails or never happens in the first place? How might Italian/Sicilian culture, language, and religion change?

The South remains fragmented and in danger of being attacked by the East Roman Armies. It may develop on parr with the North.

Sicily remains divided between Islamic Emirates until it unites or gets conquered by A). The East Romans, B). The Moors or C). The Holy Roman Emperor. As a united Island it can withstand outside conquest by operating as a vassal. But being close to the Papacy makes them a potential target. They NEED a North African Protector. Or their life is cut short.

Greek Orthodoxy may survive as late as the 17th century in Italy. Greek as a language may survive in the region as long as the religion. A permanent Arabic mark may be left in Sicily, depending on how long the Maghrebis rule.
 
The South remains fragmented and in danger of being attacked by the East Roman Armies. It may develop on parr with the North.

Sicily remains divided between Islamic Emirates until it unites or gets conquered by A). The East Romans, B). The Moors or C). The Holy Roman Emperor. As a united Island it can withstand outside conquest by operating as a vassal. But being close to the Papacy makes them a potential target. They NEED a North African Protector. Or their life is cut short.

Greek Orthodoxy may survive as late as the 17th century in Italy. Greek as a language may survive in the region as long as the religion. A permanent Arabic mark may be left in Sicily, depending on how long the Maghrebis rule.

However, it would be VERY GOOD to see an independent islamic Sicily using the old doctrine of "We are an island, then we will have a navy" repulsing various invasions and who knows, ends up with a leader who is a military genius and kicks the door of Catholic Italy.

"HERE'S SICILY" been heard in Naples
 
Well, no Normans in Southern Italy is good for the Romans since Byzantium was constantly having to deal with Norman Invasions at the same time that they were trying to deal with Turks and Bulgars.
 
Well, no Normans in Southern Italy is good for the Romans since Byzantium was constantly having to deal with Norman Invasions at the same time that they were trying to deal with Turks and Bulgars.

While Manzikert was a disastrous defeat in both tactical/strategic and political terms, it is at Dyrrachium that the Byzantine military ceases to be effective even at holding the Balkans. Only attrition and an eventual Byzantine victory at Larissa ended the Norman attempt at conquest of the Byzantines (or at least their attempt at seizing the western Balkans). Alexios was forced to gain the services of the Seljuks but before the battle much of Anatolia was still under nominal control from Constantinople, even if on the ground Turkish warlords often held sway.

Of course it's unlikely that any of this would even take place, the Norman conquest of southern Italy and Sicily started a few decades before Manzikert, so even Byzantine defeat against the Seljuks of Alp Arslan is unlikely to occur as happened historically. But if the Normans are not in place to serve as a threat to the Byzantines it's unlikely that there could be any major threat from the west. The north and east are of course still vulnerable to the Pechenegs/Cumans/Kievan Rus and Turks/Fatimids respectively.
 
The Crusades might be preempted or redirected to Sicily. The Pope will try to assemble a Christian coalition at some point to defeat Islamic Sicily. (Or mainly to increase his temporal power over kings and the Islamic presence in Sicily is just an excuse) This probably occurs in the 12th century.
 
The Crusades might be preempted or redirected to Sicily. The Pope will try to assemble a Christian coalition at some point to defeat Islamic Sicily. (Or mainly to increase his temporal power over kings and the Islamic presence in Sicily is just an excuse) This probably occurs in the 12th century.

However, it would be VERY GOOD to see an independent islamic Sicily using the old doctrine of "We are an island, then we will have a navy" repulsing various invasions and who knows, ends up with a leader who is a military genius and kicks the door of Catholic Italy.

"HERE'S SICILY" been heard in Naples
 
A neo-Carthage with the same borders as the Aghlabids seems plausible.

I have a dream
Sultanate of Sicily (10??-19??)

Territories:
● Sicily
● Naples
● Ifriqiya
● Malta
● Sardinia (13??-17??)
● Crete (12??-15??)
● Cities in coastal Morroco and Spain (Detachments to Gibraltar, Ceuta, Fez and Algeciras)
 
However, it would be VERY GOOD to see an independent islamic Sicily using the old doctrine of "We are an island, then we will have a navy" repulsing various invasions and who knows, ends up with a leader who is a military genius and kicks the door of Catholic Italy.

"HERE'S SICILY" been heard in Naples

The emirate never attempted to build a navy of any importance for reasons unknown; for some reason I seem to recall the island having a timber shortage, but that might be untrue.
 
The emirate never attempted to build a navy of any importance for reasons unknown; for some reason I seem to recall the island having a timber shortage, but that might be untrue.
It also doesn’t help when they are a quite small ruling minority which too my understanding pulled reasouces away to keep the island functional and in line
 
I'd say that Sicily would remain out of the Catholic sphere of influence for longer, but we're in the early XI century, so a Crusade-like expedition does not look impossible.
The rest of the South would be divided in many small states*, threatened by a possible foreign imperial invasion (Byzantium.), politically influenced by the near presence of the Papacy and, maybe, split in warring factions (Maybe two like Guelphs and Ghibellines.)… This looks like Northern Italy.
* Free cities? Maritime Republics? (Amalfi technically was one.)
 
I'd say that Sicily would remain out of the Catholic sphere of influence for longer, but we're in the early XI century, so a Crusade-like expedition does not look impossible.
The rest of the South would be divided in many small states*, threatened by a possible foreign imperial invasion (Byzantium.), politically influenced by the near presence of the Papacy and, maybe, split in warring factions (Maybe two like Guelphs and Ghibellines.)… This looks like Northern Italy.
* Free cities? Maritime Republics? (Amalfi technically was one.)

One of the goals of the Empire was to regain Sicily and Naples because of the problem of piracy emanating from those areas. Without the Norman Invasion of the area, the Byzantines might have an easier go at their reconquest of the divided territories.
 
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