No Norman Conquest of England?

Suppose the Norman invasion of England either fails or never happens. Harald Hadrada's invasion fails as per OTL. What are the effects in England? In Europe? Worldwide?
 
Suppose the Norman invasion of England either fails or never happens. Harald Hadrada's invasion fails as per OTL. What are the effects in England? In Europe? Worldwide?
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anglisch; for a language example

besides that, England probably doesn't have fuedalism which will allow them to draw up big armies sooner.

The probably replace the vikings as the main raiders of northern europe.
 
search engines help, but look up
anglisch; for a language example

besides that, England probably doesn't have fuedalism which will allow them to draw up big armies sooner.

The probably replace the vikings as the main raiders of northern europe.

I've actually come up with my own variants of English that would evolve given a lack of the Normans. I've never understood why people insist that it would become Anglisch, for one.

Englisc wod in worldu midut Normenisce Frencisc, on myn belife, muc ylic ðis loceþ, and muc ylic newe Englisc hleoðeþ.

English in a world without Norman French would, in my opinion, look much like this, and sound much like Modern English.
 
How likely are Normans to try again later? They were an expansive bunch and Egland is a lot closer than Sicily.
 
How likely are Normans to try again later? They were an expansive bunch and Egland is a lot closer than Sicily.

That would all depend on whether Duke William made it back across the channel. If he made it back he would try to muster another army however this would take time as the cream of Normandy would be either lying dead in an English Field, engaged in ransom negotiations or else be very unhappy about a failed invasion that cost them men and money. And that doesn't include those taking advantage of William's lost of power and prestige to trim him down to size such as for example the King of France or any of his neighbours. He would also not be guaranteed papal support for a further invasion: his initial defeat would be seen as the judgement of God.

If William had died his son Robert was aged between 12 and 15 and would have had his hands full consolidating his patrimony. In addition to a Duke who was probably a minor many of the Norman fiefs would have new rulers, some of which would also be minors and some of which would be contested. What an opportunity for the neighbours and those surviving nobles who resented William's iron hand! One can see any number of grudges and dislikes suppressed by a fighting Duke now being resolved by the sword!

In England Harold Godwinsson would be the most renowned warrior in Western Europe having defeated two of the most feared rulers in Europe in mightly battles at opposite ends of the Kingdom in less than a month. As time passed his dynasty would be able to establish itselff more firmly. His sons would be more mature and Harold being a canny politician would have married one of them off to Margaret, sister to Edgar the Atheling (who might have been married off to one of Harold's daughters). The remaining sister to Edgar, Cristina, would probably have ended up as a nun as she did in OTL.
 
Well there goes the Varangian guard, the most loyal and my favorite Byzantine unit. But yeah you killed the exiled Normans where they got a lot of the recruits that expanded their numbers and was quite crucial to a lot of key battles for the Byzantines. Constantinople will probably fare worse off (like OTL where the Varangian guard was the only resisting unit against the Frankish besiegers despite not being paid.)
 
Well there goes the Varangian guard, the most loyal and my favorite Byzantine unit. But yeah you killed the exiled Normans where they got a lot of the recruits that expanded their numbers and was quite crucial to a lot of key battles for the Byzantines. Constantinople will probably fare worse off (like OTL where the Varangian guard was the only resisting unit against the Frankish besiegers despite not being paid.)

There's still plenty of nonSaxon recruits available - the original unit was Rus, after all. Not to mention that even if not in exile, many might come to serve for gold and glory.

As for the Normans trying again: Sicily/southern Italy as a place of Norman conquest is not the same as England, where William thought he had - or claimed he had - a rightful claim to the throne. Italy was just mercenaries taking advantage of a situation to carve out their own polity like Mount and Blade writ large.
 
There's still plenty of nonSaxon recruits available - the original unit was Rus, after all. Not to mention that even if not in exile, many might come to serve for gold and glory.

As for the Normans trying again: Sicily/southern Italy as a place of Norman conquest is not the same as England, where William thought he had - or claimed he had - a rightful claim to the throne. Italy was just mercenaries taking advantage of a situation to carve out their own polity like Mount and Blade writ large.

Yes but there's a difference between mercenaries vs exiles, at least motivation-wise.
 
Are there any good TL's on this idea? I keep seeing it pop up in threads but I can't remember any actual stories about it.
 

Zioneer

Banned
There's still plenty of nonSaxon recruits available - the original unit was Rus, after all. Not to mention that even if not in exile, many might come to serve for gold and glory.

As for the Normans trying again: Sicily/southern Italy as a place of Norman conquest is not the same as England, where William thought he had - or claimed he had - a rightful claim to the throne. Italy was just mercenaries taking advantage of a situation to carve out their own polity like Mount and Blade writ large.

Don't forget though, that they had wrangled a few titles from various figures; the Holy Roman Emperor, their former Lombard lieges, the Byzantines at some points, etc. So they did have a legal claim to some of the southern Italian lands (like Melfi), just not all of them.
 
Don't forget though, that they had wrangled a few titles from various figures; the Holy Roman Emperor, their former Lombard lieges, the Byzantines at some points, etc. So they did have a legal claim to some of the southern Italian lands (like Melfi), just not all of them.

Yeah, but they did that after discovering this was a good place to build a kingdom, rather than going to the place because they had a claim.
 

Zioneer

Banned
Yeah, but they did that after discovering this was a good place to build a kingdom, rather than going to the place because they had a claim.

True, I just wanted to point out that by 1066, the Normans in Italy did have at least a shred of legitimacy.
 
The probably replace the vikings as the main raiders of northern europe.

What would possibly make them replace the Vikings? Even during the Viking era the Saxon kingdoms weren't engaged in raiding of the sort the Vikings undertook, and 1066 was in the declining years of that era. England was one of the areas that had wealth for the Vikings to target, individuals didn't need to go out plundering on distant shores in order to accumulate wealth. Unless I'm forgetting something, I see no reason for them to replace the Vikings.
 
I've actually come up with my own variants of English that would evolve given a lack of the Normans. I've never understood why people insist that it would become Anglisch, for one.

Englisc wod in worldu midut Normenisce Frencisc, on myn belife, muc ylic ðis loceþ, and muc ylic newe Englisc hleoðeþ.

English in a world without Norman French would, in my opinion, look much like this, and sound much like Modern English.

This; much would depend on whether the Great Vowel Shift still happens (personally, I attribute it to knock-on effects from the Plague, so I believe it would still happen). Also, nice bit of conlanging, I actually understood most of it! Do you have any other examples of this *alt-English around?
 
I've actually come up with my own variants of English that would evolve given a lack of the Normans. I've never understood why people insist that it would become Anglisch, for one.

Englisc wod in worldu midut Normenisce Frencisc, on myn belife, muc ylic ðis loceþ, and muc ylic newe Englisc hleoðeþ.

English in a world without Norman French would, in my opinion, look much like this, and sound much like Modern English.
i like you and i wish i was smart enough to do that.
but ja, i just said anglisch cause there were everyone points you.
but i think it doesn't sound german enough, but pretty spot on.
 
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