No Muhammad of Muhammad become Christian

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
1. Christianity and Judaism remain the dominant religions in Arabia, and spread further.

2. Some other kind of Monotheistic religion rise in Arabia.
 
One PoD to this effect that I played with a while back was having the Aksumites succeed in capturing Mecca in 570 CE, and thus butterflying away Islam.
 
What happen to Persia and Byzantium?
Without Islamic onslought they may survive.
May coptism become a rival of ortodoxy, at least in Africa?
 
Arabia was increasingly overpopulated at the time, so it is possible that you may see a non-religious sort of Völkerwanderung out of the Arabian peninsula. Lacking the inspiration it had OTL though it may be less successful, perhaps only taking the Semitic speaking lands of the Middle East. Enough to make a 3rd power in the area, but not enough to completely change the system as OTL.
 
You are still going to have a large migration of Arab tribes out of the peninsula into Mesopotamia, the Levant and Egypt. No Islam probably means a lesser amount of Arab expansion but both the Byzantine and Sassanid Empire were fairly weakened by decades of warfare between the two.
 
You are still going to have a large migration of Arab tribes out of the peninsula into Mesopotamia, the Levant and Egypt. No Islam probably means a lesser amount of Arab expansion but both the Byzantine and Sassanid Empire were fairly weakened by decades of warfare between the two.

But how big was the Arab population? I tend to think that without the emergence of a common religion, any Arab tribes that move into the Middle East are just as likely to do so independent of any state. Without a common polity, I can easily see them assimilating into the wider, largely Aramaic-speaking society.

Although finding a way to still replace Aramaic with Arabic would be interesting nonetheless. (Admittedly I know little of linguistics.)
 
But how big was the Arab population? I tend to think that without the emergence of a common religion, any Arab tribes that move into the Middle East are just as likely to do so independent of any state. Without a common polity, I can easily see them assimilating into the wider, largely Aramaic-speaking society.

Although finding a way to still replace Aramaic with Arabic would be interesting nonetheless. (Admittedly I know little of linguistics.)

I think Arab demographics were in the hundreds of thousands. Really, the absolute best time for the Arabs to attack is after the Sassanid-Byzantine war. Both are crippled, the Arab population is large and hungry, and the defenses of Syria and Mesopotamia are devastated. It's very likely they may produce a polity there similar in size to that of the Babylonians, with Arabia. It does bring into question if it'll be a massive upsurge of organized combatants or simply large numbers of disorganized tribes.
 
But how big was the Arab population? I tend to think that without the emergence of a common religion, any Arab tribes that move into the Middle East are just as likely to do so independent of any state. Without a common polity, I can easily see them assimilating into the wider, largely Aramaic-speaking society.

Although finding a way to still replace Aramaic with Arabic would be interesting nonetheless. (Admittedly I know little of linguistics.)

It probably wasn't that large to begin with. I know little of linguistics here as well so unfortunately I can't say much else than a migration of Arab tribes could very well happen. Assimilation into the general population is probably likely as you said. Maybe the Ghassanids or Lakhmids exploit the weaknesses of their masters and join up to conquer?
 
Honestly the timeline can go just about anywhere from there. The unification of the Arab tribes and their subsequent rampage throughout the Middle East shows that it was possible. That unification would be difficult without the core of Islam, but not necessarily impossible. Without unifying there's a chance of less organized migrations, as stated already, which would probably result in limited success in the recently devastated Mesopotamian region and a demographic shift in that region as well as the admission of smaller groups into the Byzantine and Sassanid Empires in return for military service, but no new power established. Third scenario is exploding population is turned inwards as different powers vie for control of the peninsula giving the Byzantines and the Persians the decade or so necessary to recover from their previous war.

Most likely scenario is an expansion to neighboring areas, but nothing like OTL. Christianity holds around the Mediterranean and Zoroastrianism continues to grow in Persia. The inherent divisions in Christianity remain, but perhaps without the looming threat of Islam absolutism is somewhat diluted. It is harder for the Arch Bishop of Rome to claim primacy with thriving Christian communities still existing around Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem and Alexandria.
 
Honestly the timeline can go just about anywhere from there. The unification of the Arab tribes and their subsequent rampage throughout the Middle East shows that it was possible. That unification would be difficult without the core of Islam, but not necessarily impossible. Without unifying there's a chance of less organized migrations, as stated already, which would probably result in limited success in the recently devastated Mesopotamian region and a demographic shift in that region as well as the admission of smaller groups into the Byzantine and Sassanid Empires in return for military service, but no new power established. Third scenario is exploding population is turned inwards as different powers vie for control of the peninsula giving the Byzantines and the Persians the decade or so necessary to recover from their previous war.

Most likely scenario is an expansion to neighboring areas, but nothing like OTL. Christianity holds around the Mediterranean and Zoroastrianism continues to grow in Persia. The inherent divisions in Christianity remain, but perhaps without the looming threat of Islam absolutism is somewhat diluted. It is harder for the Arch Bishop of Rome to claim primacy with thriving Christian communities still existing around Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem and Alexandria.

Well Egypt may declare independece?
The feelings of Coptic population toward the empire where cold at best.
Arabic migration may lead to some kind of disintegration of middle-east in nestoria/coptic petty kingdoms?

Without Islam may mazdeism expand in India?
and in Europe, can i presume that, without menaces in the east Italy and Balkans may be hold more firmly?

Africa is another matter, nearly losted to the bebers may lead to a christian west african empire?
I'm thinking, obviusly, to Mali.
 
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