No Mormons

Nietzsche

Banned
Right. We've done No Islam, no Christianity, no Judaism, no Zoroastrianism, no Buddhism, Hinduism, ect, ect. But what about Mormonism? I don't care how it doesn't happen, either Joseph doesn't write the book or he doesn't find the tablets(and no one ever does, for that matter). In this case, the "Why" does not matter. Just that in 1829, there is no LDS church founded.

How different is the world? Does it effect anything substantial other than Utah and American social politics?
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Right. We've done No Islam, no Christianity, no Judaism, no Zoroastrianism, no Buddhism, Hinduism, ect, ect. But what about Mormonism? I don't care how it doesn't happen, either Joseph doesn't write the book or he doesn't find the tablets(and no one ever does, for that matter). In this case, the "Why" does not matter. Just that in 1829, there is no LDS church founded.

How different is the world? Does it effect anything substantial other than Utah and American social politics?

No honestly not, the only diffence would be that Utah would have a smaller population.
 

MrP

Banned
No honestly not, the only diffence would be that Utah would have a smaller population.

Not quite. The policy of the Mormon Church in regard to posthumous conversion has made a huge contribution to genealogical research. Their database is truly impressive. So it'd have at least a slight social impact on people who research their family tree, for instance. I suspect their might be another minor social impact; ISTR that a lot of the money for Las Vegas came from Mormon sources, which changes a fair bit of pop culture, at least.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Not quite. The policy of the Mormon Church in regard to posthumous conversion has made a huge contribution to genealogical research. Their database is truly impressive. So it'd have at least a slight social impact on people who research their family tree, for instance. I suspect their might be another minor social impact; ISTR that a lot of the money for Las Vegas came from Mormon sources, which changes a fair bit of pop culture, at least.

Okay we another gambling capital than Las Vegas (Atlanta?)*, and aunt Gretha have harder time finding out where great great grandfather Olau came from.

*I'm not sure, Las Vegas isn't the world biggest Gambling Mecca, but it has gotten its mythological position thanks to its closeness to Hollywood, but the West Coast still need a Gambling Mecca, and Las Vegas make sense, it lies outside California, in a state with little possiblities for other sources of income, it's (relative) close to Los Angeles, I thingkLas Vegas is a logical choice for a Gambling Mecca.
 
Utah is settled by hispanic families, farmers heading out west, and elderly couples settling to retire. There is no threat Utah will secede into a theological republic and Prop 8 loses support.
 
It seems like the western state borders could be substantially different without having to cordon off the Mormons into their own square.
 
Absent Mormon competition, Protestant missionaries make more conversions in various regions around the world.
 
It seems like the western state borders could be substantially different without having to cordon off the Mormons into their own square.

Not hugely so, though - the Great Basin is a reasonable zone to have its own state. I expect we'd see something largely lining up with Utah.

...Oh, and without the threat of Mormon revolt the US would do much better in the Great War, possibly defeating the CSA a few months earlier, or at the same time but even more decisively. ;)
 
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It is not just in Utah that the Mormons settled, Hundreds of towns from Arizona/New Mexico west to California and north to Montana/Idaho were founded by the Mormons.
Without the Mormons, the entire settlement pattern of the West would have been different, with probably fewer and smaller towns, across the Great Plains.

Also the Workers at Sutter's Mill were Mormons from the nearby settlement. Mo Mormons, No/Later Gold Rush. No free State of California Pre ACW.
 

NomadicSky

Banned
I don't exist, millions of other people who resulted from Mormon families don't exist.

Millions of altime people will be born from the resulting different union.
 
It is not just in Utah that the Mormons settled, Hundreds of towns from Arizona/New Mexico west to California and north to Montana/Idaho were founded by the Mormons.
Without the Mormons, the entire settlement pattern of the West would have been different, with probably fewer and smaller towns, across the Great Plains.

Also the Workers at Sutter's Mill were Mormons from the nearby settlement. Mo Mormons, No/Later Gold Rush. No free State of California Pre ACW.

Exactly, and without the Mormon Batallion you are down one of the key spearheads West in the Mexican War as well

Without Mormons the Gold Rush comes later

Oddly enough, though, that negates one other negative - without Mormons its harder to control the prospectors and their hangers on, but without a Gold Rush in 48 then by the time it comes California would be a much more populous and developed state, even if the pattern of settlement is completely different

Utah probably remains semi-barren desert - not until a much later technological level will normal settlers think its a wonderful idea to dig loads of drainage ditches in the desert and try to grow crops there !

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Right. We've done No Islam, no Christianity, no Judaism, no Zoroastrianism, no Buddhism, Hinduism, ect, ect. But what about Mormonism?...How different is the world? Does it effect anything substantial other than Utah and American social politics?
It doesn't.
 
Exactly, and without the Mormon Batallion you are down one of the key spearheads West in the Mexican War as well

Without Mormons the Gold Rush comes later

Oddly enough, though, that negates one other negative - without Mormons its harder to control the prospectors and their hangers on, but without a Gold Rush in 48 then by the time it comes California would be a much more populous and developed state, even if the pattern of settlement is completely different

Utah probably remains semi-barren desert - not until a much later technological level will normal settlers think its a wonderful idea to dig loads of drainage ditches in the desert and try to grow crops there !

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

Not necessarily. Would Sutter have no workers at his mills if there were no Mormons around? Of course he would; or at least he'd attempt to find men interested in going west to the Sierra Nevadas. Some of the very people who went west (including those who immigrated from Europe in OTL) as Mormons may go anyway in this alternate world. Brannan might, in TTL, lead a group of Restorationist Christians (or some other religious or even secular utopian group) to California to settle the land and proclaim the Gospel (or whatever) w/printing press and supplies as per OTL. Perhaps some other group, religious or secular, goes out to California or Utah to build a new community. In my CoHE TL, for example, the Colossus Basin (OTL Great Basin) is settled by Jewish immigrants.

On another nore, I find it interesting that few of the comments touch on ways, besides Utah, Gold and the American West, in which the world would be different w/o Mormonism.
 
Part of the settlement reasons in the early west was the religious movement of the Mormons. so without that reason the early population of California will be less since Sutter won't have his extra workers for the Mill. I think lack of Mormons will have a major affect on the settlement of the west, especially considering the butterfly effect. that would alter the demographics big time.
 
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