No more Germany

Splitted Germany Map.png
What if Germany was splitted (more than 2) after WW2. The idea is that Germany's border will stay intact (except East Prussia and the majority Polish parts of Upper Silesia) but it will be splitted up in the following nations; Prussia, Bavaria, Hanover, Rhineland, Baden-Württemberg, Hesse, Westphalia, Saxony, Mecklenburg, Thuringia and Schleswig-Holstein (both Prussia and Saxony have autonomous Sorbian regions, while Hanover and Schleswig-Holstein have autonomous Frisian and Danish areas.) . No reunification in any way, forced degermanisation though adoption of local dialects like Bavarian, Alemannic, Low German (which would be called Low Saxon or something like that) etc..., degermanisation of local orthography for example (I'm using Tweants, even though it's Low German in the Netherlands, but you'll get the point.) instead of typical Low German "Den Suldaat schreev an sien Moder, dat he gau wedder to Huus kömm." a more Dutch like "n Soldoat skreef an zien moo dat e gauw wier thoes köm.". High German dialects like Bavarian or even Thuringian might be harder to degermanisation than Low German though. In school for example there will be less history lessons about Pan-German history and more Local history, building stronger relations with nations like the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Austria, Switzerland etc... and if there are lessons of Pan-German then they are negative topics like the Herero and Namaqua genocide, forced germanisation of Poles and other West Slavic people (especially in East German nations like Saxony and Prussia) and of course the Holocaust. Maybe there will be a renewal trend of using Sorbian, Polabian and other West Slavic languages around East German Nations, it would degermanize them and would bring closer relations with Poland and Czechoslovakia. How would Culture and Politics evolve around these new states and their surrounding neighbours? I could imagine good Dutch relationships with the Low German speaking areas. Schleswig-Holstein becoming a part of the Nordic council. Prussia, Saxony, Bavaria and Austria being part of Visegrad. What do you think?
 
As someone said in anotehr threat concerning the Saarland, the trouble is not the pull, Germany wants Saarland, but the push, Saarland wants Germany. Despite some divisional delusions, the various germans did feel as part of a greater ethnicity and nationality and would like to rejoin. Especially in view of past experiences in the 16th, 17th and 18th century where german weakness in comparison with stronger neighbours when the many little germanies made germany europas battleground. (and favorite place to ... pick off places to conquer, looking at you France and Alsace-Lorraine (1635)).
 
Teheran 1943:

***
Stalin: ...What other questions are there for discussion?

Roosevelt: The question of Germany.

Stalin: What are the proposals on this matter?

Roosevelt: The partition of Germany.

Churchill: I am for partitioning Germany. But I should like to consider the question of partitioning Prussia. I am for separating Bavaria and the other provinces from Germany.

Roosevelt: In order to stimulate our discussion on this question, I want to set forth a plan for partitioning Germany into five states, which I personally drew up two months ago....

Churchill: I should not like to be understood as not favouring the partition of Germany. But I wanted to say that if Germany is broken up into several parts without these parts being combined then, as Marshal Stalin said, the time will come when the Germans will unite.

Stalin: There are no steps that could exclude the possibility of Germany's unification.

http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/history/johnson/teheran.htm
 
As someone said in anotehr threat concerning the Saarland, the trouble is not the pull, Germany wants Saarland, but the push, Saarland wants Germany. Despite some divisional delusions, the various germans did feel as part of a greater ethnicity and nationality and would like to rejoin. Especially in view of past experiences in the 16th, 17th and 18th century where german weakness in comparison with stronger neighbours when the many little germanies made germany europas battleground. (and favorite place to ... pick off places to conquer, looking at you France and Alsace-Lorraine (1635)).
Well, then what about an ultimatum. The Allies could give the Germans an ultimatum "If you want to be united so desperately, then you all have to pay the full prize!". Meaning, Germany is united, but looses much more land (say Oder-Neiße, Holstein and the Rhineland and Bakker Schut as an bluff), extreme high reperations for both world wars, political isolation, no military and Deindustrialization. It's basically to scare the population and politicians. Would you like to live in hell for a united Germany or get an relative calm peace as part of a small nation.
 
@DUWANG
What let you tink that there was any german questioned in 1945 at all about the fate of Germany ?
Well... no one. But they don't need to have an option. They just need to think that they have an option whenever to live a peacefull life, or go though hell for at least 2 generations. I'm pretty sure that such an ultimatum would bring many Germans to put Pan-German feelings down so that they and their family can live a happy life. I mean would you still advocate for a united Germany knowing the consequences for that?
 

Khanzeer

Banned
Still :
What for ?
It would be incredibly sadistic to punish entire population for 2 generations like that.

Its possible but it would make a mockery of human rights, democratization and other humanitarian values that west wanted espouse after ww2
 
View attachment 495533 What if Germany was splitted (more than 2) after WW2. The idea is that Germany's border will stay intact (except East Prussia and the majority Polish parts of Upper Silesia) but it will be splitted up in the following nations; Prussia, Bavaria, Hanover, Rhineland, Baden-Württemberg, Hesse, Westphalia, Saxony, Mecklenburg, Thuringia and Schleswig-Holstein (both Prussia and Saxony have autonomous Sorbian regions, while Hanover and Schleswig-Holstein have autonomous Frisian and Danish areas.) . No reunification in any way, forced degermanisation though adoption of local dialects like Bavarian, Alemannic, Low German (which would be called Low Saxon or something like that) etc..., degermanisation of local orthography for example (I'm using Tweants, even though it's Low German in the Netherlands, but you'll get the point.) instead of typical Low German "Den Suldaat schreev an sien Moder, dat he gau wedder to Huus kömm." a more Dutch like "n Soldoat skreef an zien moo dat e gauw wier thoes köm.". High German dialects like Bavarian or even Thuringian might be harder to degermanisation than Low German though. In school for example there will be less history lessons about Pan-German history and more Local history, building stronger relations with nations like the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Austria, Switzerland etc... and if there are lessons of Pan-German then they are negative topics like the Herero and Namaqua genocide, forced germanisation of Poles and other West Slavic people (especially in East German nations like Saxony and Prussia) and of course the Holocaust. Maybe there will be a renewal trend of using Sorbian, Polabian and other West Slavic languages around East German Nations, it would degermanize them and would bring closer relations with Poland and Czechoslovakia. How would Culture and Politics evolve around these new states and their surrounding neighbours? I could imagine good Dutch relationships with the Low German speaking areas. Schleswig-Holstein becoming a part of the Nordic council. Prussia, Saxony, Bavaria and Austria being part of Visegrad. What do you think?

There's another timeline that is potentially dealing with that situation right now.
 
Still :
What for ?
Maybe because they are more paranoid of an united Germany than OTL? I mean think about it, WW2 (like in OTL) wouldn't have happend if Germany was splitted into smaller parts. I mean in 1945 Germany was only 74 years old, that's younger than some people. And both times it was united it "started" a world wide war. So it wouldn't be to weird to think this way. Originally it was planned to split Germany into at least 2 bits before the cold war happend.
 
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