No Monroe Doctrine

I think that the british would keep their sphere of influence. At least in Brazil they already had commercial benefits post-1808, post-independence war we had a huge debt with Britain, etc. Though i don't know much about the other parts of Latin America, i think the british had an influence too on the new republics, at least i remember a speech by Simon Bolivar where he said something along the lines that "we stopped being spanish colonies to become british colonies".
 
Probably worse...generally, most of the European colonies failed horribly, and the results can be seen today.
 
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I think that the British would keep their sphere of influence.
Yeah IIRC the doctrine was actually first proposed by the British who suggested that they make a joint declaration but the Americans did it by themselves. Even then it was mostly the Royal Navy that enforced it for a long while, Pax Britannica and all that.


At least in Brazil they already had commercial benefits post-1808, post-independence war we had a huge debt with Britain, etc. Though I don't know much about the other parts of Latin America, I think the British had an influence too on the new republics, at least I remember a speech by Simon Bolivar where he said something along the lines that "we stopped being spanish colonies to become British colonies."
Pretty much, the British informal empire - the general name for it, was absolutely massive in South America. The British absolutely loved it since they got all the economic benefits without the costs and bother of actually having to run the place themselves or worry about another Power taking over and excluding them.
 
Assuming no butterflies(and that's near ASB in itself), the US has no reason to intervene in Mexico during the French intervention, so Mexico becomes a French puppet. Also, we might see European attempts to recapture their former colonies. Didn't Spain try to take back Mexico at least once?
 
Assuming no butterflies(and that's near ASB in itself), the US has no reason to intervene in Mexico during the French intervention, so Mexico becomes a French puppet. Also, we might see European attempts to recapture their former colonies. Didn't Spain try to take back Mexico at least once?

Not really. Spain intervened in Mexico along with France and the UK but withdrew once they figured out that France wanted to set up a puppet State.
 
Assuming no butterflies(and that's near ASB in itself), the US has no reason to intervene in Mexico during the French intervention, so Mexico becomes a French puppet. Also, we might see European attempts to recapture their former colonies. Didn't Spain try to take back Mexico at least once?

The Americans may intervene to restore and protect Mexico as a democratic republic.
 

katchen

Banned
Cossacks in the New World

Instead of announcing the extension of the Holy Alliance to the New World, which the Spanish King knows will provoke a British response given Great Britain's growing commercial relations with the new independent regimes in Latin America, King Ferdinand comes up with a secret way to compensate for the mutiny of Spanish troops to be sent to Latin America.
Spain concludes an agreement with Russia. In return for supplying Cossacks to recapture New Spain and New Granada and Peru if need be, Russia receives the Viceroyality of La Plata (Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay and the undeveloped Northern two thirds of New Spain (North of Tampico.The Cossacks are able to deploy before Admiral Cochrane (who is stuck on the West Coast) can do anything about them.
 
Probably worse...generally, most of the European colonies failed horribly, and the results can be seen today.

Canada, America, Australia, New Zeeland, Pakistan, India, Brazil, Argentina, Columbia, Venezuela, Indonesia, Jamaica...

Yup, all post apocalyptic hell holes... where men kill one another over the last renaming puddles if irradiated water.
 
Canada, America, Australia, New Zeeland, Pakistan, India, Brazil, Argentina, Columbia, Venezuela, Indonesia, Jamaica...

Yup, all post apocalyptic hell holes... where men kill one another over the last renaming puddles if irradiated water.

Pakistan is'nt exactly a great example..
 
It's actually got nuclear weapons, that in itself means it isn't a total hellhole.

Nuclear weapons are'nt actually that hard to make, indeed, if you remove the internal and external opposition to them most countries could develop them.
 
Question, when you say no Monroe doctrine do you mean a situation where there's absolutely no policy like that at all or one where the US doesn't proclaim it but the British do and enforce it either officially or unofficially? The second one might not be all that different to begin with but could lead to some interesting changes later on. With no history of the Monroe doctrine are the Americans able to or think of expanding it into the Big Brother policy or later ones such as the Roosevelt corollary?
 
There probably isn't much of a difference. It was Britain that kept Europe out from Latin America, but there were still various interventions by European powers that are forgotten today. By the time the US is able to effectively keep out the European powers on its own, it will do so, like OTL. It just won't be able to pretend it's been doing so since 1820.
 
"Monroe Doctrine" is ultimately a fancy way of saying sphere of interest. Unless you create a US without any foreign interests, but rather walled themselves off, they're going to have a foreign policy which looked after their business interests. The US wants a North/South/Central America which is open for US business, not closed off by an European overlord.

Regardless, for the first ~ 100 years of the Monroe Doctrine, the US had no means to enforce it, and the Europeans did not recognize it. During the Venezualan Crisis of mid 1890's, the US pushed the MD to a whole new level, and Britain was busy with other world issues, so they backed down and recognized it.

Ultimately, though, Britain was Boss (sphere of interest) in Canada, in South America, and a lot of central America, only ultimately losing out in WW1/2. With the exception of a few central american countries, the US was not instrumental in the formation/maintaining latin countries/gov'ts. When they did, it was because of business interests, not explicitly because of a declaration of a MD. Then came the cold war, and that whole struggle had nothing to do with the MD, except in a generic way.

declaration of MD or not, everything remains pretty much exactly the same, unless you turn the US into a closed, inward looking, business society.
 
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