No Mongol Empire
- Thread starter Hawkeye
- Start date
Wonder if that'll be the only possible result.
With a PoD early enough to butterfly Mongol Empire, there should at least a load of possible outcomes, here. And I don't really see a muslim world that's just as bad as IOTL will be the most likely outcome for muslims in a world without anything that resembles OTL Mongol Hordes.
Of course it's not the only possibly result. If it were, wouldn't "Was Wäre Wenn" be out of business?
But if it did happen then wouldn't Persia be stronger then in OTL? I'm not saying that it would lead to a muslim dominated world, just a stronger central Asia.
Oh definitely a stronger Central Asia for sure. I was complaining about how the muslim world fared to worse in Max's Chaos TL. The should be stronger Central Asia in that TL eventually caved in before the western powers eventually....
Nikephoros
Banned
Not to mention how old the Chaos TL is. Sure, it is epic, but it is quite dated. I feel that our understanding of AH has grown way past that. Still a good read though.
Only until around 1750 or so, after that it starts going off the deep end. (IMO)
That is quite amusing... so now is there some sort of ahistoriography on this site? The study of the study of alternate history?
wait... we are forgetting China... no Mongol Empire means alotta shit. i think... that the Mongol Empire heads to Manchuria and Korea. then into Southeast Siberia. then west towards eastern Turkestan. but only the norther Half or so. then the eastern half of the "central asia -istans" Russia is definitely strong. the successor to Ghengis stops the advance.. this is the most realistic thing i can think of. they might get China too. but the Yuan Dynasty would be very different.
Well I also thing that the Ottomans would be much weaker.
Seeing as the Georgian Kingdom had a population of about 10 million before the Mongolian invasion, (to compare the British ilse had 7 at that time.) A stronger Georia would balance the powerbetween the Muslims and Christians there. And while the Arabic countries too would be much stronger, I dont really think that Turks and Arabs would work together too well.
So i think that the Muslims would move eastwards rather then westwards. Maybe a muslim India?
Also Russia would not become as big, since it was the deputrure of the Mongolians that allowed the Kievian Rus to conquer the destroyd regions. So maybe there is an other, less powerfull (but still strong) country next to russia? That would change much in Europe. Making either Germany or Poland/Lithunaia stronger... maybe both. Really the consequences would be to many.
Europe itself would have less crusades, maybe non, since the muslims would be stronger and probably less hatefull towards the christians. Hence they would not throw the priest out of yerusalem, hence no reason for crusades. This would make Europe more warlike towars each other, but also stronger. Maybe a sooner united Germany? A free Spain in the 14 century? Earlyer Colonisation?
Hmm.. really hard to say, since the mongolians were such a major power, and above all so big. They influenced so many countrie...
Seeing as the Georgian Kingdom had a population of about 10 million before the Mongolian invasion, (to compare the British ilse had 7 at that time.) A stronger Georia would balance the powerbetween the Muslims and Christians there. And while the Arabic countries too would be much stronger, I dont really think that Turks and Arabs would work together too well.
So i think that the Muslims would move eastwards rather then westwards. Maybe a muslim India?
Also Russia would not become as big, since it was the deputrure of the Mongolians that allowed the Kievian Rus to conquer the destroyd regions. So maybe there is an other, less powerfull (but still strong) country next to russia? That would change much in Europe. Making either Germany or Poland/Lithunaia stronger... maybe both. Really the consequences would be to many.
Europe itself would have less crusades, maybe non, since the muslims would be stronger and probably less hatefull towards the christians. Hence they would not throw the priest out of yerusalem, hence no reason for crusades. This would make Europe more warlike towars each other, but also stronger. Maybe a sooner united Germany? A free Spain in the 14 century? Earlyer Colonisation?
Hmm.. really hard to say, since the mongolians were such a major power, and above all so big. They influenced so many countrie...
The most probable result for Mongol-less world would be that there would be no Russia as an unified state. (Most discussions of that POD on Russian AH forum ended up with two to five "Russian" states in European Russia alone).
http://fai.org.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=6908
http://fai.org.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=6926
And many more in the sub-forum Ìíîãîðóñüå (World of Many Russias)http://fai.org.ru/forum/index.php?showforum=91
Now, my basic two years of Russian hasn't equipped me with the linguistic prowess to understand anything beyond the occasional 'Novgorod'. If you could roughly explain their scenario it world be greatly appreciated.
I'm curious about the effects on Japan. The Mongol invasions were the first time the samurai fought for something greater than their own clans, the first time they fought for Japan. Without the unifying threat of the Mongols, could we see a possible Balkanized Japan, unless another threat takes the Mongols historical place?
Last edited: