No, it is notr exactly true. Polish-Soviet conflict actually started in January 1919, when Soviets troops marching west met with Polish troops pushing east near a small town of Mosty in today's Belarus (close to present Polish border). Soviet forces were executing operation "Target Vistula" (at that time mostly recon mission), Polish troops were trying to stop them. It is not known who actually fired the first shot.Remeber it was the Poles that started the war, the Soviets didn't really want it.
What if the Soviets had won the Battle of Warsaw, overrun Poland, and then swarmed into Germany for communism? What would be different?
Is it possible that there could have been a Turkish-Soviet war? The Turks and Russians did engage in a few battles in 1921 before signing a peace treaty. Without their loss in Warsaw, perhaps the Soviets would feel confident enough to continue that war.
Well, the truth lies in the middle – in Soviet government, there were factions, that supported the war with Poland, but there were also factions that opposed it. But I think, that Poles should get the most blame – they were fighting for lands, that weren’t their, but Lithuanian, Belorussian and Ukrainian, due to some kind of irrendentism, based on will to recreate the First Polish Republic. Not to mention the Kyïv Offensive…Soviets wanted that war
Well, the truth lies in the middle – in Soviet government, there were factions, that supported the war with Poland, but there were also factions that opposed it. But I think, that Poles should get the most blame – they were fighting for lands, that weren’t their, but Lithuanian, Belorussian and Ukrainian, due to some kind of irrendentism, based on will to recreate the First Polish Republic. Not to mention the Kyïv Offensive…
But returning to the main topic, I think that Soviets after their victory would only subjugate Poland to USSR (but probably only as satellite buffer state, not part of the USSR), and thats all – contrary to the current Polish propaganda, Bolshevik goal weren’t to military conquer the Western Europe, but to have better strategical position for control of the communist revolutions there.
Eh, well, I took that as a sort of self-irony, and he did argue the stance contrary to the Polish view here, so it might well be... of course, I do disagree with calliung the PLC the First Polish Republic, thats a sign in the other direction!My, a fellow who insists that Lwow and Wilno weren't Polish lands while referring to himself as "yet another Polish troll"! What a promising debut!
Eh, well, I took that as a sort of self-irony, and he did argue the stance contrary to the Polish view here, so it might well be... of course, I do disagree with calliung the PLC the First Polish Republic, thats a sign in the other direction!
Anyways, yes, the common meme here that the Soviets would enter Poland like the Mongolian Horde is of course wrong. Now, much depends on the reaction of France and the UK, obviously... if France really seeks to compensate the loss of Poland as a thorn in Germanys side by aggressive measures against Germany, things could get ugly (because logically, communism might then appear very... appealing to the Germans).
if France really seeks to compensate the loss of Poland as a thorn in Germanys side by aggressive measures against Germany, things could get ugly (because logically, communism might then appear very... appealing to the Germans).
Well, the truth lies in the middle – in Soviet government, there were factions, that supported the war with Poland, but there were also factions that opposed it. But I think, that Poles should get the most blame – they were fighting for lands, that weren’t their, but Lithuanian, Belorussian and Ukrainian, due to some kind of irrendentism, based on will to recreate the First Polish Republic. Not to mention the Kyïv Offensive…
Vilnius and Lvov also weren’t Polish – Vilnius was the historical capital of Lithuania, and regions roughly corresponding to polish interwar provinces of lwowskie, tarnopolskie and stanisławowskie were only sparsely populated by Poles…I agree that those lands were Lithuanian, Belarussian and Ukrainian (with some exceptions, especially regarding Vilnius and Lvov)
But it was the same megalomaniac Polish imperialism.He wanted to create a federation or an alliance of states under Polish leadership - that is not the same as making them a part of Poland.
But it was the same megalomaniac Polish imperialism.
The cities themselves were most definitely Polish.Vilnius and Lvov also weren’t Polish
True, but that was at the time of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.Vilnius was the historical capital of Lithuania
Vilnius and Lvov also weren’t Polish – Vilnius was the historical capital of Lithuania, and regions roughly corresponding to polish interwar provinces of lwowskie, tarnopolskie and stanisławowskie were only sparsely populated by Poles…
But it was the same megalomaniac Polish imperialism.
Back to The OP ...What if the Soviets had won the Battle of Warsaw, overrun Poland, and then swarmed into Germany for communism? What would be different?