No miracle of the Vistula

Wolfpaw

Banned
It's a shame this thread died out , since someone decided to do a no Miracle on the Vistula time-line that is now entering full blown Soviet Wank , or at the very least , the best case scenario for the USSR if there's no Miracle on the Vistula. Has anyone ever thought of writing a No Miracle of the Vistula time-line that is not a Soviet Wank ?
I've thought of writing a short story set in such a universe, but I'm currently involved in other projects :(

*sigh* One day....
 
I'll sum this up as best I can:

Poland is reintegrated into the Soviet Union and becomes an SSR. East Prussia probably falls as well. There's a possibility that the Baltics will also fall. We can expect rather nasty insurgencies in all of these territories that could lead to some rather heavy-handed Soviet tactics.

Germany will not go Red, nor will any other part of Europe. In fact, we will likely see Germany play the role Poland did in OTL, that is, being the buffer between Western Europe and the "Asiatic Bolshevist Hordes." Versailles will likely be allowed to fall apart as Germany increases its armed forces with tacit support from the British and maybe even the French if enough pressure is brought to bear on them.

Germany will probably become some sort of military dictatorship or, at the very least, a hyper-militarized state in alliance with basically every other Western European power. Czechoslovakia and Romania will probably go down similar paths. A war between a larger Soviet Union and Western Europe is almost unavoidable, IMO.

Pretty much this, except for East Prussia going Red.

France might be rather neutral, as it really does not want to see Germany rearmed. Britain will be far more receptive to the idea of a strong Germany to keep the Soviets away.

If Germany rearms and gets economic support from Britain, it's almost certain that the nations of the Balkans will fall into either the German or Russian orbits. Hungary and Czechoslovakia, despite their mutual distrust, seem good candidates for German allies, Romania can go either way, IMO.
 
I'll sum this up as best I can:

Poland is reintegrated into the Soviet Union and becomes an SSR. East Prussia probably falls as well. There's a possibility that the Baltics will also fall. We can expect rather nasty insurgencies in all of these territories that could lead to some rather heavy-handed Soviet tactics.

Germany will not go Red, nor will any other part of Europe. In fact, we will likely see Germany play the role Poland did in OTL, that is, being the buffer between Western Europe and the "Asiatic Bolshevist Hordes." Versailles will likely be allowed to fall apart as Germany increases its armed forces with tacit support from the British and maybe even the French if enough pressure is brought to bear on them.

Germany will probably become some sort of military dictatorship or, at the very least, a hyper-militarized state in alliance with basically every other Western European power. Czechoslovakia and Romania will probably go down similar paths. A war between a larger Soviet Union and Western Europe is almost unavoidable, IMO.

Surely in this scenario, instead of losing what is left of Prussia the Germans would take the opportunity to grab the stuff they lost or it might even defect to Germany to save itself from the Soviets.
 

Deleted member 1487

Surely in this scenario, instead of losing what is left of Prussia the Germans would take the opportunity to grab the stuff they lost or it might even defect to Germany to save itself from the Soviets.

That is most likely as there were still lots of German armed groups around, not to mention Soviet logistics getting to Warsaw were ready to snap. Honestly though it really was no miracle for the Poles to win at that point.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
Surely in this scenario, instead of losing what is left of Prussia the Germans would take the opportunity to grab the stuff they lost or it might even defect to Germany to save itself from the Soviets.
That's far more plausible and probable than my scenario. Germany would fight tooth and nail to hold onto East Prussia and likely come out on top.

But I do wonder what the fate of western Poland will be, especially if the Germans take back the land they lost at Versailles.

I can't see the Soviets holding anything beyond the Vistula. If that's the border, would there be a Polish rump state in the lands around Lodz and Kielce and Krakow, or would the Germans just occupy it, or might the LON make it a mandate?
 
I'll sum this up as best I can:

Poland is reintegrated into the Soviet Union and becomes an SSR. East Prussia probably falls as well. There's a possibility that the Baltics will also fall. We can expect rather nasty insurgencies in all of these territories that could lead to some rather heavy-handed Soviet tactics.

Germany will not go Red, nor will any other part of Europe. In fact, we will likely see Germany play the role Poland did in OTL, that is, being the buffer between Western Europe and the "Asiatic Bolshevist Hordes." Versailles will likely be allowed to fall apart as Germany increases its armed forces with tacit support from the British and maybe even the French if enough pressure is brought to bear on them.

Germany will probably become some sort of military dictatorship or, at the very least, a hyper-militarized state in alliance with basically every other Western European power. Czechoslovakia and Romania will probably go down similar paths. A war between a larger Soviet Union and Western Europe is almost unavoidable, IMO.

Most of this is reasonable, but I suspect that the Soviets might take another shot at Finland eventually, and potentially be successful in that effort. However, I too do not East Prussia falling, and instead see the Freikorps trying to secure what had been West Prussia before the world war, and potentially leading/backing a putsch in Germany subsequently.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
I suspect that the Soviets might take another shot at Finland eventually, and potentially be successful in that effort. However, I too do not East Prussia falling, and instead see the Freikorps trying to secure what had been West Prussia before the world war, and potentially leading/backing a putsch in Germany subsequently.
I agree with all of this. Perhaps another right-wing Putsch, though Kapp's little misadventure is still fresh in everybody's mind...
 
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