No Magyars in Pannonia: A timeline concept

No Magyars in Pannonia

Survival of Svatopluk I part 1
Arnulf's invasion started in July 892, but he failed to defeat Svatopluk I of Moravia. The war against Moravia seems to have continued until 894. A group Magyars came to great Moravia in 895 to aid Svatopluk I of Moravia against Arnulf and because of that Great Moravia survived although Bohemia remained detached from Great Moravia.
The Great Moravian state soon weakened and Svatopluk decided that Pannonia will go to his son Svatopluk as a fief of Great Moravia and Moravia and Nitra will go to his son Mojimir and Lusatia and Bohemia would go to his own son Predslav while Bohemia slipped to Bavarian suzerainty and because of that his son Predslav would only inherit Lusatia, while Silesia and Vislania will be transferred to Poland a dowry of one of the female relatives of Svatopluk named Svatoslava, who will be married to Lestek in exchange for the Christianization of Poland since the some of the people of Vislania and Silesia really recognized Lestek as their own ruler not the Moravian King as their own King so the complete transfer was not hard, in 898, Svatoslava married Lestek and established christianity in Poland so Lestek was baptised in 898 as a condition for the marriage, the marriage, the transfer of territory and christianization are the start of the Polish-Moravian alliance this was because Svatopluk wanted to end the dispute over Silesia and Vislania with Poland and Svatopluk wanted to avoid a possible Frankish-Polish alliance, Poland adopted Glagolithic as their written language just like Moravia and after the marriage Sviatopluk I of Moravia and Lestek I of Poland attacked Bohemia in 899 and many of it's population fled until Lestek and Svatopluk were stopped by Arnulf.

sviatopluk_i_survives_year_900_by_kasumigenx-d5du0eb.png
Draft/Preview.
 
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I have a question based on the map.

Why on earth would Croatia risk war with E.Frankish kingdom and Byzantine controled Doclea while there was area for expansion in Bosnia and Slavonia (though I see you gave that to Moravia - what happened with prince Braslav of Panonnia)?
 
I have a question based on the map.

Why on earth would Croatia risk war with E.Frankish kingdom and Byzantine controled Doclea while there was area for expansion in Bosnia and Slavonia (though I see you gave that to Moravia - what happened with prince Braslav of Panonnia)?

I just copied from this map

http://www.emersonkent.com/images/europe_912.jpg
sorry if forgot that principality and Bulgaria and I also forgot to put the Vassal states, I will post corrections and updates later on..
 
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The problem with this timeline is that there was no Poland in ninth century. The first archeological evidences of forming new entity in nowadays Greater Poland come from around 920 in Kalisz and Giecz. The heart of the new state in Greater Poland was formed about 940 and contained territories which would correspond roughly with current Wielkopolskie Voivodeship. And only in the next decades were a period of great expansion to the west, to the east and eventually to the north and south. Your map shows borders of Poland (which was not known under this name yet) from about 965 together with it's southern conquests from 980-990.
 
The problem with this timeline is that there was no Poland in ninth century. The first archeological evidences of forming new entity in nowadays Greater Poland come from around 920 in Kalisz and Giecz. The heart of the new state in Greater Poland was formed about 940 and contained territories which would correspond roughly with current Wielkopolskie Voivodeship. And only in the next decades were a period of great expansion to the west, to the east and eventually to the north and south. Your map shows borders of Poland (which was not known under this name yet) from about 965 together with it's southern conquests from 980-990.

So that means I need to restart this timeline, thanks for reminding me.;), thanks.;)
 
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I just copied from this map

http://www.emersonkent.com/images/europe_912.jpg
sorry if forgot that principality and Bulgaria and I also forgot to put the Vassal states, I will post corrections and updates later on..

Using maps from late 19th or early 20th century is questionable at best. They might look apealing but have so many mistakes.

The map even shows Chrobatia aka White Croatia that we have just very broad idea where it could have been.
 
Using maps from late 19th or early 20th century is questionable at best. They might look apealing but have so many mistakes.

The map even shows Chrobatia aka White Croatia that we have just very broad idea where it could have been.

This site might be more use
 
Yes that one is quite good but it also had several maps that creataed "WTF moments" like when they showed BLACK CROATS in the Carpathians but it has become better over the years :D
 
Survival of Svatopluk I
Arnulf's invasion started in July 892, but he failed to defeat Svatopluk I of Moravia. The war against Moravia seems to have continued until 894. A group Magyars came to great Moravia in 895 to aid Svatopluk I of Moravia against Arnulf and because of that Great Moravia survived and the Magyars aided Svatopluk I against Arnulf of Carinthia.
The Great Moravian state soon weakened and Svatopluk I decided that Pannonia, Moravia and Nitra will go to his son Mojimir and Lusatia and Bohemia would go to his own son Predslav while Bohemia slipped to Bavarian suzerainty and because of that his son Predslav would only inherit Lusatia, while Silesia,Sandomir and Vislania were given to his namesake Svatopluk, Svatopluk I did this in order to make their country stable and end the revolts in his own empire, but this will be the birth of three new countries from Great Moravia.
In 895, Svatopluk I annexed Pannonian Croatia that is ruled by Braslav and Braslav was killed on action by the forces of Svatopluk I of Greater Moravia due to border conflict and later due to the secession of Bohemia, Svatopluk I attacked Bohemia in order to get it back to Great Moravia from Bavaria but his own efforts have failed after Arnulf of Carinthia defeated Svatopluk I in battle but he killed Spytihnev before being defeated by Arnulf of Carinthia, in the mean time the control of Greater Moravia on Vislania, Sandomir Silesia and Vislania strengthened and the sphere of influence of Great Moravia even reached the town of Kalis.
Arnulf stopped Svatopluk's invasion of Bohemia and initially decided to make Bohemia as it's own vassal and it turned out that Spytihnev had died in action while warring with Moravia, so Arnulf annexed Bohemia instead.
In 897, Svatopluk I dies and his own will takes effect the Greater Moravian Kingdom fragments to three states, Vislania(Vislansko), Lusatia(Luzyce) and Moravia(Morava), Vislania has Sandomir, Silesia, Vislania and Kalis land, Svatopluk I of Vislania secured Kalis land under his own rule. Mojimir retained the core of the Kingdom of Great Moravia including Pannonian Croatia and continued to rule Great Moravia without Lusatia and the lands north of Carpathians and Sudety and Predslav ruled Lusatia.
 
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