No Lousiana Purchase?

April 11 1803 Paris France, U.S Minster to France Robert Livingston is offered by the french to have the United States purchase the Louisiana Territory for 15 Million Dollars. Livingston was given orders to only purchase New Orleans for 10 Million Dollars. Livingston considers this but then realizes this would be illegal because he was given no such authority he tell the french he will go back to america and ask if the purchase will be acceptable.

June 15 1803 Robert Livingstong arrives back in america and presents the treaty to Jefferson, Jefferson cites that its not his power to approve it because its not outlined in the constitution. Jefferson and Livingston Submit the Bill to congress. Back in Europe word has spread about franc e willing to sell louisiana. Spain, Frances main ally at the time takes interest and agree to buy louisiana for the price france offered.

June 18 In America Congress votes and approves the Bill and livingston is sent back to france. However at this time spanish diplomats sign the treaty with france and louisiana is transfered to spain.

July 25 Livingston arrives back in Paris and infroms the french the united states is ready to buy louisiana, but the french tell them the spanish have already bought it. A shocked livingston returns to the united states emptyhanded.



What could develop from this? Would america invade Lousiana? If it did would it continue into other colonies? Would Louisiana be bought buy the usa from spain from a higher price? Could flordia be given to the usa as a consolation for them not getting louisiana? Would America expansion be focus north instead of west? could canada fall to america by purchase or conquest? would expansion south into flordia and the carribean, possibly the guyana's? Would any of this affect the napoleonic wars?
Thoughts? Comments?
 
Hrm, I could have sworn I posted this...

I don't think the French and Spanish can keep America out. The territory had increasingly been viewed as necessary to America's security, and once war breaks out, there's no way for Spain and France to defend it. The real danger, I guess, is the British seizing it before America...
 
US allies with UK and seizes the Louisiana Purchase. Given improved relations and damaged ones with France the US does not start the war of 1812.
 
The USA really wanted to get control of New Orleans, since it was the terminus port for a lot of merchandise shipped down the Mississippi, and thus, very important to it economically. The USA would likely immediately start making offers to Spain to purchase the city (or the whole territory); if these fail, I wonder if the USA wouldn't just flat out seize the city in the wake of Napoleon's invasion of Spain & Portugal, and offer payment for it later...
 
US allies with UK and seizes the Louisiana Purchase. Given improved relations and damaged ones with France the US does not start the war of 1812.

US and UK allied in 1803? It is not long after the rebellion, you know... There is too much hatred and mistrust between them to allow such thing. A war between US and UK about Luisania seems more logical. Maybe it will end up in a partition of Luisania?
 
US and UK allied in 1803? It is not long after the rebellion, you know... There is too much hatred and mistrust between them to allow such thing. A war between US and UK about Luisania seems more logical. Maybe it will end up in a partition of Luisania?

America and Britain cooperated during the XYZ affair about joint military operations, including the seizure of Florida and supporting Filibusters in Latin America. So I find this fairly plausible.

Let me toss out this scenario:

Hoche succeeds in invading Ireland, and although the British naval supremacy ultimately drives them out, with Britain distracted Napoleon subdues Egypt, while Hoche ends up as the French First Consul. Addington comes to power a bit like OTL, and Britain, shaken by financial troubles, doesn't want to provoke war. Meanwhile, Hoche cuts a deal with Toussaint, giving him Haiti as a fief, and he acquires Louisiana as in OTL.

So, instead of losing it fairly quickly, Hoche sees it as the nucleus of a New World Empire. He offers the US and UK free navigation on the river, as well.

Now what?
 
How about this Partition plan:

800px-United_States_1803-04-1804-03.png

800px-United_States_1803-04-1804-03.png
 
The British would be quite delighted to end all US trade with Napoleon and his empire, replace all possibility of a military distraction in North America with an alliance, even of convenience, and pay for it all out of French property.


clendor, Great Britain could hardly have cared less about the area as long as they didn't have to worry about their own trade. Also, during the XYZ affair, John Adams contacted the British and found them quite amenable to an alliance. Let Jefferson find such an alliance necessary should the proposed purchase fail and the groundwork is already done.

And why does that map have a compromise including most of the American Old Northwest, recognized as being part of the US by the British years earlier, being given to Canada? There is absolutely no chance of that partition being accepted by the United States short of a crushing military defeat.
 
Guys

Would agree with Grimm on this last point especially. Although still actually outside effective American control they had acceptance by Britain of America's authority in the old NW area so can't see it being traded away. Especially since it would likely mean a much more divided US with the slavery v free soil issue coming to a head much, much earlier.

Would be a great deal for Britain and Canada, getting back the bulk of the southern Canada conceded in 1783, but I can't see it passing Congress.:(

Steve
 
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