No Lennist coup (aka great October revolution)

It still amazes me that two Bolsheviks who were so opposed to the October Revolution (to the point of sabotage) managed to retain such high-ranking positions in the Party until Stalin took them out.

We have to remember that the stereotype of the Bolsheviks as a centralized, monolithic party is derived from *later* experience. In 1917, things were different. To quote an old post of mine:

"Worse still, Zinoviev and Kamenev actually leaked word of the planned Bolshevik coup and of their own opposition to it to the non-Bolshevik press. A furious Lenin demanded their expulsion from the party, but they saved themselves from this fate by backing off from their opposition.

"To compound the damage, Zinoviev and Kamenev again quarreled with Lenin after the insurrection succeeded: they wanted a coalition government of all the socialist parties. When they and a number of other pro-coalition Bolsheviks resigned their functions and pledged an intra-party fight against Lenin, Lenin was again furious: "The comrades who have resigned are deserters...Remember, comrades, two of these deserters, Kamenev and Zinoviev, even before the insurrection in Petrograd acted as deserters and strikebreakers..." Either they will submit or they will be expelled from the party, he warned. And of course they submitted, and were readmitted to grace.

"As Adam Ulam notes (*The Bolsheviks*, p. 384) of the episode of the resignations:

"'Many years later in Stalin's Russia most of the surviving dissenters of 1917 found themselves on the bench of the accused and eventually before a firing squad Among their crimes their behavior in those days was counted as one of the most heinous: they contradicted and fought against Ilych, they deserted their posts. But by the rules and spirit of the Bolshevik Party in 1917 there was nothing illegal or immoral about their behavior. It was open to any Party member who disagreed with its decisions to lay down his functions and to state his dissent. 'Your demand...' wrote the members of the opposition to Lenin, 'that in all our pronouncements we should support the policy of the Central Committee with which we basically disagree represents an unheard-of order to act against our convictions.' And so it was even by the then-prevailing Bolshevik standards.'"
 
It still amazes me that two Bolsheviks who were so opposed to the October Revolution (to the point of sabotage) managed to retain such high-ranking positions in the Party until Stalin took them out.
i wonder how a Kamenev-led soviet union would be
 
Maybe the left SRs would have radicalized after another year of legislative deadlock and a Provisional Government discredited by a disastrous peace deal. Who knows?

And this is what makes an ATL so frustrating with Russia, if the PG should negotiate a peace they are still villains subject to revolution. Some level of "civil war" seems inevitable to sort out the path ahead and whose vision prevails. At each turn I find another fire breaking out in Russian society, as much as every Whites prevail scenario makes it easy to end the revolution, nothing seems to stop the revolution. But would an earlier peace give more opportunity to head off civil war? I assume it at least takes away the biggest plank Lenin could leap from, peace now?
 

Anchises

Banned
And this is what makes an ATL so frustrating with Russia, if the PG should negotiate a peace they are still villains subject to revolution. Some level of "civil war" seems inevitable to sort out the path ahead and whose vision prevails. At each turn I find another fire breaking out in Russian society, as much as every Whites prevail scenario makes it easy to end the revolution, nothing seems to stop the revolution. But would an earlier peace give more opportunity to head off civil war? I assume it at least takes away the biggest plank Lenin could leap from, peace now?

I think there are a scant few scenarios where Civil War is avoided.

Extremly early peace. Germany rolls a shitton of 6s, Russia rolls a shitton of 1s and more troops are stationed in the East. Stavka has to admit military defeat in 1915/1916. Nicky makes peace and is then toppled by a Revolution.

PG is able to stabilize the economy, the Soviets become weaker and weaker and at some point the Duma actually gains full control over whats left of Russia. If they keep the Ukraine the new state might survive long term.

Apart from that there are a few other scenarios but an earlier peace is needed for all of them.

An earlier peace gives more room for manouvers that might prevent the looming civil war but that is still an unlikely possibility if we don't see an extremely early peace.

The key here is to prevent the radicalization of the urban proletariat due to hunger and continued war. Without this we might not see the radicalization of the reactionaries. With an earlier peace they are not as tired of war though. So in 1916 the Cossacks might decide to "restore order" without zealous Bolsheviks.

It is a tricky thing to maintain enough of the old Tsarist state to actually keep things running without falling prey to the same mistakes the PG made IOTL.
 
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