No Jewish or Moorish expulsions from Spain, how does it develop?

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Deleted member 1487

Without the expulsions from Spain of the Jews and Moors, how does Spain develop thereafter?
1492:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alhambra_Decree
Scholars disagree about how many Jews left Spain as a result of the decree; the numbers vary between 130,000 and 800,000. Many (likely more than half) went to Portugal, where they eluded persecution for only a few years. The Jewish community in Portugal (perhaps then some 10% of that country's population)[12] were then declared Christians by Royal decree unless they left.
Tens of thousands of Jews died while trying to reach safety. In the last days before the expulsion, rumors spread throughout Spain that many Jews had swallowed gold and diamonds they hoped to take with them. As a result, many Jews were knifed to death and had their stomachs cut open by brigands looking for treasure. In another example, Jews who tried escaping via the sea were often charged exorbitant sums by Spanish ship captains, and were then sometimes tossed overboard in the middle of the sea.[13]
Other Spanish Jews (estimates range between 50,000 and 70,000)[citation needed] chose to avoid expulsion by conversion to Christianity. However, their conversion did not protect them from ecclesiastical hostility after the Spanish Inquisition came into full effect; persecution and expulsion were common. Many of these "New Christians" were eventually forced to either leave the countries or intermarry with the local populace by the dual Inquisitions of Portugal and Spain. Many settled in North Africa, Latin America [14] or elsewhere in Europe, most notably the Netherlands (see Sephardic Jews in the Netherlands).
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1609-14:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_the_Moriscos
The Council of Castile evaluated the expulsion in 1619 and concluded that it had no economic impact for the country. This was basically true for Castile, as some scholars of the expulsion have found no economic consequences on sectors where the Morisco population was important.[6] However, in the Kingdom of Valencia, fields were abandoned and a vacuum was left in sectors of the economy the Christians could not possibly fill. With the removal by 33% of the inhabitants of the Kingdom of Valencia, some counties in the north of the current Alicante province lost virtually their entire population. The infrastructure decayed, and the Christian nobles and landlords fell into arrears. Strapped for cash, many of the Valencian nobles increased rents on their Christian tenants to get even close to their previous income. The increase in rents drove off any new tenants from coming to replace them, and as a result agricultural output in Valencia dropped tremendously.[7]
The expulsion of 4% of the population may seem minor, but it should be noted that the Morisco population was a larger part of the civilian workforce than their numbers would make seem. Practically no Moriscos were trusted to be noblemen, soldiers, or priests. This meant that there was a noticeable decline in tax collection, and the most affected areas (Valencia and Aragon) were economically damaged for decades.
The expulsion was a crippling blow not just to the economies of Aragon and Valencia, but also the power of their nobles. The former Crown of Aragon had been in the shadow of the richer and more populous Crown of Castile for some time, but with this, their stature dropped still further. Of the Eastern Kingdoms themselves, the Catalonian nobles now rose to prominence, their incomes far less affected since, unlike their southern and westerly neighbours, they never had a significant morisco population. Thus the expulsion helped shift power away from its traditional centers in Valencia to Catalonia within the Kingdom of Aragon.[8]
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TFSmith121

Banned
A multi-faith Iberia would have been interesting;

A multi-faith Iberia would have been interesting; certainly unusual for Europe in the period.

This is after the Reconquista, so - better relations with the Islamic world? Fewer Spanish peninsulares emigres to the Western Hemisphere?

Lots of ripples.

I guess the first question is what changes things from the historical reality?

Best,
 

Faeelin

Banned
To be fair, keeping a Jewish population would not have been unusual. The Moriscos would have been more unusual.
 
Clandango

Clandango

Will alternative methods to outright expulsion be used? And it might be less likely for a unified Spain if there are many Moors. These days Catalonia and the Basque are fairly independent minded. Having the a kingdom of Granada with it's own distinct culture would not help things. Though it could be interesting if it helped future annexations from The Rif.
 

Jinx999

Keeping order in a medieval country of mixed religous groups would have required some fairly harsh measures. The muslims would not be happy with dhimmi (at best) status. The christians (radicalised by the reconquesta from the usual level of medievel intolerence) wouldn't be happy sharing the country with "christ-killers" and "mahommedians". And the jews wouldn't be happy being in a potential power keg.

I'm not sure a multi-cultural society would have been workable.
 

Redhand

Banned
There would likely be rebellions in the south to crush and Spain would be internally fractured for a longer period of time, but many of the Jews and Muslims expelled were doing jobs of economic importance, leading to the collapse of the Spanish economy in the 1500-1600s despite an overwhelming amount of silver from the new world.

This may lead to Spain's period of domination in Europe to be a bit delayed but to last well into the 1700s as they might have staved off the problems of silver inflation and inefficiency (I'm no expert on the economic problems, I just know they existed). I don't really see the New World conquest being affected but maybe there is an effort to settle there by the Jews and Muslims that creates a vastly different social climate and possibly independence wars come about quicker. There's a lot of butterflies to consider.
 
Lusitania

Lusitania

Donor
No expulsion from Spain means no expulsion from Portugal. :D

Biggest butterfly would also been the weakening of the Ottoman Empire who benefited the most from the Spanish and Portuguese expulsion. :):)
 

HappyCommie

Knowing the deep impact these expulsions had in spanish economy and population(in broad numbers, Jews and Moorish were few but they were concentrated in certain jobs ans places), they're good PoD for a TL ;)
 

Agatho

While I think this would be difficult to pull off, it would at the latest require a POD concerning the attitudes of the Reyes Catolicos. From what I understand, after taking control of the Inquisition from the Papacy they took it to new heights of persecution against the conversos, and of course the Alhambra decree came under their rule. There is already a path for toleration in that Jews had historically held the status of direct vassals/serfs of the king, so having Ferdinand and Isabella protect them from persecution would certainly be in their best interests. AFAIK those Jews who served los RRCC were protected from Alhambra, at least for a time, and were under the impression that this wave of fervor was only temporary. Perhaps if one of them could convince Ferdinand and Isabella? It would be highly controversial, but as far as protecting the Jews go the only ones who really had an interest in it were los RRCC, and they would have to fight against the nobility who might feel their feudal fueros and power threatened by a group that was largely bourgeois in outlook, and against the upper and lower/mendicant clergy who often inflamed the populace with anti-Semitism. The monarchy would also have to have a good assimilation program in place, and a way to ensure that the "New Christians" didn't suffer persecution for their previous religious status.

Of course, all of this could also get them in trouble with Rome, and other countries like France, which had already expelled its Jews, could see this as an invitation to attack a country which had "strayed away" from the Faith.

With muslims/moriscos it would be much more difficult. Now we're talking the historical foe of the Iberian monarchs since 711. Again, the best I can offer is a good assimilation program, perhaps offering muslim conversos the same status as the Jews: direct vassalage to the king. Other than that, muslim populations would have to be resettled in different parts of the kingdoms to keep them from coordinating/revolting, but what noble would allow that in his lands?

IMHO, a POD from before los RRCC might be necessary to change attitudes towards Jews and Muslims, but since "Spain" didn't even exist on paper until the Bourbons were on the throne, something that far back would leave the country completely unrecognizable, and the butterflies would be tremendous.
 

Niko Malaka

Jinx999 said:
Keeping order in a medieval country of mixed religous groups would have required some fairly harsh measures. The muslims would not be happy with dhimmi (at best) status. The christians (radicalised by the reconquesta from the usual level of medievel intolerence) wouldn't be happy sharing the country with "christ-killers" and "mahommedians". And the jews wouldn't be happy being in a potential power keg.

I'm not sure a multi-cultural society would have been workable.
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Actually, under medieval uses, it was viable, and the different communities cohabited beter or worse during centuries. It`s the Modern State what causes the trouble and led to the expulsions in its need of homogeneisation and centralisation. Perhaps a middle point, under Alfonso X's Partidas, a legal code that could be put in an intermediate point between the Modern State and the Medieval "state" could allow to this scenario. Maybe we need to get rid of Isabella and specially Ferdinand and the Habsburgs. Joanna la Beltraneja winning the castilian civil war? Certanly we shopuld make of Spain a sui-generis reality in the european context, not only for its ethnic make-up as mentioned, also in its poltical organisation.

The effects in history are inmense. Stronger demographuical base, not economic impact caused by the expulsions...and the aforementioned needed changes...
 

Danth

Didn't the Borgia take many Jews after they were expelled from Spain?
It might force a few bumps for them if the Jews stay
 
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