What if the king of France Charles VIII had never invaded itaIy in 1494, kick-starting the Italian wars?
His plan was to take southern Italy and use it to start a crusade against the ottomans, but how would the history of Europe change without this series of wars during the 16th century?
And let's not forget about all the confessions and the treaties charles VIII made before the war to appease England and Spain, treaties that obviously wouldn't have happened
 
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What if the king of France Charles VIII had never invaded itaIy in 1494, kick-starting the Italian wars?
His plan was to take southern Italy and use it to start a crusade against the ottomans, but how would the history of Europe change without this series of wars during the 16th century?
And let's not forget about all the confessions and the treaties charles VIII made before the war to appease England and Spain, treaties that obviously wouldn't have happened


You probably mean "concessions". :) But, except for Roussillon, most of the concessions (Artois and the Franche-Comté) had been a byproduct of him marrying Anne of Brittany instead of Margaret of Austria. Also, there would be a need to exclude Louis XII with his own claims to exclude continuation of the wars which lasted all the way to the reign of Henry II.

With these wars completely avoided France would be trying to get Artois and the Franche-Comté much earlier than in OTL. OTOH, absence of the French activities in Italy would not mean an absence of the Hapsburg claim to Milan and Aragonian claim to Naples. The main difference would be in Charles V getting them without too much of a fight with the resulting earlier "Hapsburg encirclement" of France along the OTL lines. Of course, France would try to break it but the main theaters would be on its Northern (Flanders) and Eastern (Franche-Comté) borders. Practical different would be almost complete absence of the Italian armies.
 
You probably mean "concessions". :) But, except for Roussillon, most of the concessions (Artois and the Franche-Comté) had been a byproduct of him marrying Anne of Brittany instead of Margaret of Austria. Also, there would be a need to exclude Louis XII with his own claims to exclude continuation of the wars which lasted all the way to the reign of Henry II.

With these wars completely avoided France would be trying to get Artois and the Franche-Comté much earlier than in OTL. OTOH, absence of the French activities in Italy would not mean an absence of the Hapsburg claim to Milan and Aragonian claim to Naples. The main difference would be in Charles V getting them without too much of a fight with the resulting earlier "Hapsburg encirclement" of France along the OTL lines. Of course, France would try to break it but the main theaters would be on its Northern (Flanders) and Eastern (Franche-Comté) borders. Practical different would be almost complete absence of the Italian armies.
Thank you for your reply, but what do you mean by "absence of Italian armies"?
I think that France would naturally seek to gain a better position north-east, the Flanders were (and still are) among the richest regions in Europe, they were close to Paris and a French king wouldn't need naval superiority to get them
 
Thank you for your reply, but what do you mean by "absence of Italian armies"?

In OTL the Italian states and even Italian condottieri played a noticeable role in these wars. If the main theater of war is moving from Italy to the Flanders, then these troops are not a factor.

I think that France would naturally seek to gain a better position north-east, the Flanders were (and still are) among the richest regions in Europe, they were close to Paris and a French king wouldn't need naval superiority to get them

French king did not need a naval superiority to fight for Milan either. As for fighting in the Flanders and Franche-Comté, it would be almost inevitable: after all, the parts of them were historically French (like Artois) and ended up being a part of the modern France.
 
I'd been working on a scenario like this, where, instead of invading Italy, Charles VIII has to deal with at least a few wars with England and the HRE over Brittany (Anne marries Edward V). It seems likely England would very likely be defeated without substantial Imperial help, considering France's strength at this point. Besides, from the French point of view, Artois and the Franche-Comté are good to have, if they can wrest them away.
 
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