No Help Coming

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by SpaceOrbisGaming, Mar 29, 2019.

  1. SpaceOrbisGaming Life long gamer and aspiring author

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    I was watching and was like what would of happened if Benjamin Franklin failed to get French involvement in the American Revolution. I know we would likely lose the war but what would be the fallout of that? How would the world react to a failed American Revolution? How would the British Empire fare with the colonies still with them?
     
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  2. Odinson Amateur stand-up comedian

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    Well, no French involvement, we have much less funding and arms.

    Depending on how the War goes, I can see either the 13 colonies being treated like Ireland: heavy occupation, original settlers disenfranchised.
    Or, the British make some sort of deal with her colonies to ensure they don't rebel again.

    Personally, I'm leaning towards harsh occupation.

    Fallout wise, I see a lot of patriots leaving for the deep interior or Lousiana.
     
  3. SpaceOrbisGaming Life long gamer and aspiring author

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    I'm of the same mind I'm not sure if the battle at yorktown would still happen, fail, or still be a win for the colonies. But at any rate the king would ensure such a thing was inlikely to happen again. Now with that done i could see the British Empire not moving west as fast as we did but we would sometime in the 1800's if for nothing else for the goods it has.

    As for the patriots I could see them killed the French don't start cutting off heads and the British Empire never falls apart.
     
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  4. Odinson Amateur stand-up comedian

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    The French could still rebel at some point, may be with less American influence though.

    America may lose, but that doesn't mean that other colonies can wage a war of independence. Mexico could still have one down the line. Perhaps theirs inspires the French people to rise up in some way.
     
  5. SpaceOrbisGaming Life long gamer and aspiring author

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    I'm not saying it couldn't happen but a failed American Revolution may slow any other such wars for a few years. IMHO the fact the American Revolution didn't fail coupled with the debts of the war was what pushed the French to start they own in the 1780's-1790's. I'm unsure about Mexico but the fact any such war happened may make others want to try.
     
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  6. Fabius Maximus Unus qui nobis cunctando restituit rem

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    I think a heavy occupation would be unlikely -- the Thirteen Colonies were too big for Britain to keep down by force, so it would be much better to get the colonists to at least passively accept their situation. Most likely you get some sort of compromise whereby the Colonies each have to pay a sum towards a common Imperial Defence Fund, but they get to raise it how they choose rather than the money being levied directly by Westminster.
     
  7. brickhouse The Town Weirdo

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    I wonder if the british would form a confederation from the colonies ( possably based around the galloway plan of union.)
     
  8. SpaceOrbisGaming Life long gamer and aspiring author

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    I'll have to look that up as I'm unsure what that even is. But maybe they would do something along the same lines anythings possible after all.
     
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  9. SpaceOrbisGaming Life long gamer and aspiring author

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    Just in case anybody wanted to know what the Galloway plan of union was I have copied it for you to read should you want to.
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    GALLOWAY'S PLAN OF UNION. In September 1774, as the First Continental Congress debated various means of coercing Parliament toward accepting colonial sovereignty, Joseph Galloway, a Pennsylvania delegate and prominent supporter of reconciliation with Britain, devised a plan to avert the escalating crisis. Galloway rejected natural law as a basis for colonial rights, claims against Parliament, or independence. He looked instead to written and common law and sought a new imperial constitution to protect the colonies' best interests.

    Galloway presented his plan to the Congress on 28 September 1774. In it, he called for the establishment of an American legislature that would govern both imperial affairs in America and relations between individual colonies. The legislature would function as a branch of the British Parliament, and legislation passed by the American house would require Parliament's approval. The plan also recommended appointment, by the king and a grand council of the colonial assemblies, of a president-general to oversee the legislature. Galloway's plan for limited colonial sovereignty within unified British institutions found support among moderate delegates led by James Duane, John Jay, and John Rutledge. But the plan failed to address the crux of colonial grievances: excessive parliamentary power. Opponents of the plan, led by Patrick Henry and Richard Henry Lee, therefore assailed it as a ruse to secure England's dominance over colonial affairs. Delegates rejected the plan by a margin of one vote. Following his defeat, Galloway became an outspoken critic of the Continental Congress and popular political leaders and eventually became a Loyalist during the Revolution.
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    Will by the looks of it we could have had that in our own timeline had one person voted another way round. But I don't see why this couldn't be possible after a failed American Revolution. Now would such a thing happen post-war that I don't know I would need to look up how the king acted before and after the war and make a call on what he would likely do in such a timeline? I have been told he was mad so maybe he would have everybody killed. If anybody knows if that's true I would like to know.
     
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