No Golden Horde, Kiev-Muscovy rivalry

Fenestella

Banned
History is haunted by geography.
There's a term called 'revenge of geography' .
Anyone can overlook norms and look for abnormalities.
But remember, when geography takes revenge, latitudes are the most vindictive.
 
History is haunted by geography.
There's a term called 'revenge of geography' .
Anyone can overlook norms and look for abnormalities.
But remember, when geography takes revenge, latitudes are the most vindictive.
So is that why southern China is usually running the show even when they go for a northern capital?
 
History is haunted by geography.
There's a term called 'revenge of geography' .
Yes, and that's Kaplan's term, one of the most ludicrous claims he ever did, and widely critizied.

Furthermore, even Kaplan is sane enough to restricts the term to the Post-Cold-War situation. (May I hadd that quoting a non-geographical or non-historical expert, which have a known cultural bias, isn't faring much well).

Now, if we're to discuss the OP (which is probably what everyone came there for), we can either dismiss the latitude factor as irrelevant (which is, frankly, what everyone discussing the question did so far) ; or if you stress that it's relevant, you'd have to explain how to convince us.
 
That's telling how little you know about China.
Look what my erudite Chinese friend has to say:
"南方天然性地对北方处于弱势,...根本性规律,...中国几千年..."
http://www.duping.net/XHC/show.php?bbs=10&post=1261228

I'm afraid that a blunt affirmation* is not the same thing than a proof.

If I write on a forum that Eastern Europe is naturally weak when it comes to steppe threats, it doesn't makes it true. Again, that ask for facts : so far you only provided blunt affirmations, which make being convinced by your theories pretty hard.

*Roughly that southern China is inherently weak when it comes to face northern threats, and that somehow represent the world history greatest law.
I'll add that you could have the basic politeness to translate it for people that doesn't happen to have a pal that roughly speaks chinese.
 
That's telling how little you know about China.
Look what my erudite Chinese friend has to say:
"南方天然性地对北方处于弱势,...根本性规律,...中国几千年..."
http://www.duping.net/XHC/show.php?bbs=10&post=1261228
I don't read Chinese. If you'd provide a translation that would be helpful (I don't trust google to do it any justice). Plus one friend doesn't make a difference. His views on China could be just as unique as your views on Europe.
 
The problem with this is that Latitudes don't work in this situation, Muscovy was founded by Ivan the Rich and was able to gain by playing by the Golden Horde's rules. Even if Kiev was rich, even before the Mongol invasions it is well past it's prime as a power. Also the political situation of the Kievan Rus doesn't allow for the latitude theory to really work, the more longer lasting principalities where in the north.
 

Fenestella

Banned

I'll add that you could have the basic politeness to translate it for people that doesn't happen to have a pal that roughly speaks chinese.

ok, ok

blunt affirmations
The Chinese are blunt when they see clear patterns, no pc "nuance", that's their strength.

I don't read Chinese. If you'd provide a translation that would be helpful (I don't trust google to do it any justice). Plus one friend doesn't make a difference. His views on China could be just as unique as your views on Europe.

http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3396232275?see_lz=1
为什么,整个地球都是北压倒南? (Why north squashes south all around the world? )

只要沾上了“北”,就会是最后的胜利者。("North" is a magic word, north has the final word)

中国北方统一南方。( Northern China owns southern China)

奥地利其实是比北德要冷的,理论上没有“南”的特征啦,还是被碾压。谁叫不是“北”
(Austria is cold enough, not exactly "southern", still dwarfed by Prussia. What a pity, not "northern" enough)

契丹干北宋,女真干契丹,蒙古干女真 (Khitans hammer Song, Jurchens hammer Khitans, Mongols hammer Jurchens.)
是啊,总结的太精辟了 (Spot-on, bravo)
 
The Chinese are blunt when they see clear patterns, no pc "nuance", that's their strength.
Okay, "Political Correctness", that'd do for the bingo.

You gave absolutly NO proof of you theory, that you only get supported from a guy that is so biased about everything not about american imperialism, and no "Chinese are blunt and no PC".

At this point, I'm not expecting any academic-based, or even remotly realistic point : enjoy your superiority narrative (because yes, you're only rationalizing about how northern people are inherently superior), I won't bother you from now on if you really hold it dear at this point.
 

Fenestella

Banned
enjoy your superiority narrative (because yes, you're only rationalizing about how northern people are inherently superior), I won't bother you from now on if you really hold it dear at this point.
You're unaware of your own bias.
For me, bellipontent warriors =/= superior people
I love Italian verismo operas more than Wagner's Gesamtkunstwerk (many are warlike).
I'm the true diversity guy.
 
You're unaware of your own bias.
For me, bellipontent warriors =/= superior people
I love Italian verismo operas more than Wagner's Gesamtkunstwerk (many are warlike).
I'm the true diversity guy.

Was your OP just bait? What are you even talking about anymore?
 
ITT: Everyone having fun discussing the threeway split between Galich, Novgorod, and Vladimir-Suzdal, and then there's OP ruining it for everyone.
 
http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3396232275?see_lz=1
为什么,整个地球都是北压倒南? (Why north squashes south all around the world? )

只要沾上了“北”,就会是最后的胜利者。("North" is a magic word, north has the final word)

中国北方统一南方。( Northern China owns southern China)

奥地利其实是比北德要冷的,理论上没有“南”的特征啦,还是被碾压。谁叫不是“北”
(Austria is cold enough, not exactly "southern", still dwarfed by Prussia. What a pity, not "northern" enough)

契丹干北宋,女真干契丹,蒙古干女真 (Khitans hammer Song, Jurchens hammer Khitans, Mongols hammer Jurchens.)
是啊,总结的太精辟了 (Spot-on, bravo)

Yes, China got invaded from the North a lot. Europe got invaded from the East just as often. Does anyone consider East better? Western Europe and Southern China retained economic superiority and were the prize for all those Easter or Northern invaders from Central Asia.

The only real connection is that Northern China and Northern Germany are both relatively more open and flat than the southern parts, which makers them good for mobile armies, and later for Germany a fertile belt of farmland once the locals are able to defend against invading raiders better (in China's case the more scattered southern farmland is more fertile and so able to support an equal population).

Basically you're just using an old fashioned Chinese stereotype. The North considers the South soft while the South considers the North semi-barbarian and uncivilised. Which is pretty similar to Eastern and Western Europe.
 
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