No GNW (or “Peter goes South”)

[6] You can make a guess. 😜

I don't know about that ...
Well, of course, nobody can compete with our Mme Bonapartova who seemingly manages to dictate Parisian fashions from Moscow….
But she could certainly create, or influence creation of first Fashion Brand/House in Moscow beating Brooks Brothers in New York (1818), maybe even make Moscow a fashion capital of Europe for a time. She's even in good position having contact to the Rich Russian nobility and even imperial family via Napoleon.

Speaking about the Napoleon, this war will be first Russian war against European great power, not one but two of them. Victory here will raise his standing massively and catapult him up in Russian society.
 
Or against the author, for that matter :p
And many others whom he managed to charm one way or other including, more than once, Napoleon himself. And his pre-election PR campaign in Sweden was quite modern with an adjustment on TV not being available and had to be substituted with the paintings. 😜
 
I don't know about that ...

Finally, I managed to cheat your mind reading! 😂

But she could certainly create, or influence creation of first Fashion Brand/House in Moscow beating Brooks Brothers in New York (1818), maybe even make Moscow a fashion capital of Europe for a time.

Not compatible with her social position.
She's even in good position having contact to the Rich Russian nobility and even imperial family via Napoleon.
This exactly why she can’t be a head of a fashion shop. You are either a part of the aristocracy or you are serving aristocracy but not both.

Speaking about the Napoleon, this war will be first Russian war against European great power, not one but two of them. Victory here will raise his standing massively and catapult him up in Russian society.
Strictly speaking it was more complicated but in this specific case, yes.
 
Finally, I managed to cheat your mind reading! 😂

I imagine that you want to use textile industry as a catalyst for industrial revolution in Russia? It did play significant role in industrial revolution. As for the material, well given the fact that Russia conquered Central Asia earlier and given that it was main raw material for industrial revolution, i would say Cotton, it was all rage in 19th century European fashion .

Edit: But otherwise Josephine could still influence a creation of Russian fashion brand, think about it, all those rich nobles are far better off wearing Russian luxury goods than buying it as far away as France, they just need their fashion icon wearing it.
 
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I imagine that you want to use textile industry as a catalyst for industrial revolution in Russia It did play significant role in industrial revolution. As for the material, well given the fact that Russia conquered Central Asia earlier and given that it was main raw material for industrial revolution, i would say Cotton, it was all rage in 19th century European fashion .

Not even close. 😜
Edit: But otherwise Josephine could still influence a creation of Russian fashion brand, think about it, all those rich nobles are far better off wearing Russian luxury goods than buying it as far away as France, they just need their fashion icon wearing it.
You missed “export” part and, as a hint, she is not going to create anything. 😜
 
Fashions important and not
173. Things important (fashions) and not (pretty much everything else)

You can’t create a demand. But you can create necessity for a demand”
O’Henry ‘Cabbages and Kings’
“The perfect accessory can make the difference between looking blah and totally to die for.”
Michael Kors
Accessories are everything. To me, they're more important than the clothes.”
Rachel Zoe
“He is a true Hapsburg: he can spend a week discussing color of the collars for a jagger battalion” [1]

Moscow. Somewhere between 1802 and 1804.

Fashions and Josephine as a factor of Russian economy


The “classic” style introduced by Josephine and her friends during the Directory time was spreading through most of Europe but even with some reasonable changes [2] it had one big problem: these dresses were very light and Paris, not to mention, London, Vienna, Moscow, etc., had climate noticeably colder than Ancient Greece. Doctors begged to ban this fashion, inviting the ladies to go to the Père Lachaise cemetery and see how many pretty women died because of her from a cold. Needless to say that neither proposals to ban the fashion nor invitations to visit the cemetery produced any visible result. The solution had to come from the fashion’s Olympus and it was Josephine who proved herself to be up to the task of saving unknown numbers of lives and, to a great surprise of everybody starting from her husband, to benefit the Russian economics.
In one of his diplomatic dispatches to Paris citizen (“call me just ‘marquis’”) de Caulaincourt mentioned that at one of the court events Mme Bonaparte had a shawl of an unsurpassed beauty skillfully draped over her shoulders and that the next day on a private ball many Russian aristocratic ladies had been parading similar accessories, all made in Russia out of some seemingly weightless but very warm material. To his inquiry Mme. Bonaparte answered that these shawls had been there “forever”, it just that they were not deemed proper for the society occasions and now they are.

This jewel of information had been (as expected) communicated to the consuls’ womenfolk and from them spread around Paris as a wild fire. The first practical action came from Bernadotte’s extended family: the consul who never was afraid of any enemy could not withstand for long a concerted assault by 5 dedicated females (Desire, Julie, Pauline, Caroline and Elisa, fortunately Lucien with his wife were in Madrid) and the courier had been sent to Moscow with a letter requesting the French ambassador to acquire and send to Paris, ASAP, 7 (2 more for for the wives of other consuls) of these, now mandatory, accessories. After the first demonstration in Paris, it was just a question of how exactly to get these shawls to France and then elsewhere.

Necessary explanation. The whole thing was a byproduct of two factors: (a) cold winters in Orenburg area and (b) a lot of women who had plenty of a free time. Not to forget, there was also a fundamental linguistic confusion involved.

The winters in Orenburg are really harsh and the local breed of the goats got used to them by growing extremely thin down which is the thinnest in the world - 16-18 micrometers, while that of Angora goats (mohair) is 22-24 micrometers [3]. Despite being so fine, the fiber is very durable, more so than wool.

According to one of the legends, the first Russian settlers who arrived in the Urals were surprised by the light vestments of Kalmyk and Kazakh horsemen galloping through the endless steppes of the former Kyrgyz-Kaisak Horde. The secret of confronting the fierce Ural frosts turned out to be unusual: they used scarves woven from goat’s down as a lining for their light clothes. The scarves were sewn without any patterns, performing only a utilitarian function: to keep warm to your owner. These native people had been routinely busy with tending for their herds and agriculture while the settlers were Cossacks (initially) fully occupied with a border service and as a result their wives had a considerable amount of a free time and also brought a traditional culture of knitting and making laces. In an addition, unlike the common Russian peasant women (who usually were too busy trying to survive), the Cossack women had a tradition to get dressed nicely. So their husbands started buying the goat down from the “natives” and the wives started with making the shawls.
Now, the shawls were strictly utilitarian made for warmth, rather thick and lacking any patterns. But soon enough the whole thing became more sophisticated. the first man who paid serious attention to the unique qualities of goat down hair was a Russian historian of Orenburg area Peter Rychkov. In 1766 he proposed to organize this knitting craft as a business. As an example illustrating his ideas he used a shawl made by his wife. There are 3 types of the product which in Russia was called «Оренбургский пуховый платок»:


  • Simple down wrap (shawl) - gray (rarely white) thick warm down scarves. It was with the manufacture of shawls that the Orenburg down knitted fishing began. The warmest type of «платок» used for everyday wear.
1657676900699.png

  • A spider web or gossamer is an openwork product made of goat down of thin spinning and silk. Not used for everyday wear. It is used in solemn, festive occasions, as knitting schemes and techniques are much more complicated than a simple down scarf. Cleaner and softer wool is usually used, which increases the cost of the product.
1657677085127.jpeg


  • Stole or palantin is a thin scarf/cape, similar in knitting and use to a gossamer.
1657677010261.png


A gossamer and a stole are as thin as a web. Thin cobwebs usually have a complex pattern and are used as decoration. The subtlety of the product is often determined by 2 parameters: whether the product passes through the wedding ring and whether it can be placed in a goose egg. A good craftswoman can tie two medium-sized gossamers or three stoles in a month. It takes a month or more to make a large handkerchief or a handkerchief with a pattern or inscription. Each handkerchief is an original work of art, in which a lot of creative work and patience of downworkers are invested.
Naturally, they are coming in various shades of white and grey (the best would be either pure white or very dark grey) or they could be dyed in a variety of colors.

Depending upon size, down quality and sophistication of a pattern the gossamers and stoles could be reasonably affordable (tens rubles) and all the way to hugely expensive (thousands or even tens of thousands). A “normal” size of an ordinary gossamer was 5 by 5 feet but they were much smaller and considerably bigger items.

[In OTL the international rage started in mid-XIX with “Imitation a la Orenburg” organized by an English firm “Lipner” and France and Britain importing tens thousands poods of the down annually.]


Of course, advantages of having something warm had been obvious for the Russian climate but so far all versions of Orenburg products had been worn privately with a resulting high level of the cold and pneumonia (with a corresponding mortality rate) after the court and simply aristocratic balls: an architectural style involving the enfilades was nice and good for Italy but even in France, not to mention much colder Russia, it resulted in drafts which no heating installations could fully remove.

Josephine was not aware of all these circumstances but present occupation of her husband involved extensive dealing with all types of the army contractors and in the Russian Empire it was more or less assumed by default that a signed contract warrants some gratitude. Now, it was out of question to offer general Bonapartov a vulgar bribe and, him not being fond of the hunting, a favorite occupation of the Russian nobility, presenting him with the pure breed hounds was probably not a good idea either. But a nice present to his wife was a completely different story.

A visit from a merchant, even a completely respectable one, could be slightly unusual for the Russian high society but Josephine was French and the things had been quite different under Directory where the main criteria of a social acceptance was wealth. So he was admitted and, after expressing all needed admiration, presented “Matushka, Your Excellency” with a silver goose egg. When the souvenir was opened, inside was something white, light and fluffy which proved to be a huge gossamer 9 by 9 feet, which was pulled through a small ring. Being who she was, Josephine did not hesitate to make this present into a socially-acceptable accessory.

Now, the cashmere shawls from India already started appearing in Britain and some of them had been brought to France from Egypt by a returnin army. Shawl brought from India (shown below) was fabulously expensive!
1657681927132.jpeg

And this high cost is quite understandable: three weavers worked on an ordinary shawl for several months, and the complex one, with an intricate pattern, was weaved from one and a half to four years. However, none of them were comparable in the terms of warmth and light weight: Orenburg gossamer 5 by 5 feet weighted approximately 200 grams or even less.
1657684082117.jpeg

With the floodgate open, not a single type of a shawl could monopolize the market but the the shawls from Orenburg got a considerable part of it with a resulting growth of a weavers’ number from few hundreds to over ten thousands. The shawls were still made at home by the individual weavers but soon enough there were few entrepreneurs basing their production on that model. Making hobby into a business of course meant bigger income for the involved cossack families but it also meant much more work than the Cossack women had been used to. Eventually, profession spread to the non-cossack Russian settlers of the region and later outside the region: the goat down was easy to transport and the knitting skills could be learned. However, the original product name was preserved, especially for the exports. Export of the Orenburg down was strictly prohibited not to impede the domestic production and its export.

Emperor Paul, with all his indifference to the outside world’s opinions, was actually pleased by the fact that the Russian Empire became one of the European fashion centers and a major producer and exporter of the high-end fashion items. Plus, domestic production of such items meant that the Russian nobility will not be spending money abroad buying them in Paris or London. Mme Bonaparte was made lady-in-waiting of the Imperial Russian Court and awarded Order of St. Catherine [4], which was the highest honor available to a women in the Russian Empire.

Besides Orenburg, few manufactures had been founded to produce the shawls closer in their appearance to the Indian style. Special methods of processing the down of Tibetan goats, vigones and saigas were developed - a skein of yarn weighing 13 grams consisted of a thread 4.5 kilometers long. Each shawl that had dozens of shades (!), two craftswomen weaved from one and a half to two years, and it cost a fortune - up to 32 thousand rubles.


For the broader classes of domestic consumers shawls, which were called "Kupavinsky," were made at the Kupavinskaya factory of Prince N. B. Yusupov, they were worn by merchants. The cost of one such shawl was 200 rubles (this amount was earned by a factory worker for the year). Even cheaper shawls had been produced elsewhere with the most popular being made in Pavlov Posad. They were bought by not too rich people and exported into the CA.


More fashions - the war lost
While Josephine wad busy with the things truly important, her husband also was, besides whatever else his was doing, also was involved in all-important fashion business by actively participating in redesign of the army uniforms. Of course, this area could not be neglected because the militaries were, by definition, darlings of any patriotic woman and must look dashing. Even in the army of the Republic, at least in theory, the officers’ and generals’ uniforms had been cute, with all these scarves tied in the enormous bows, gold braid, plumes and what not. Surely, the Russian imperial army has to be at least on the same level. Unfortunately, unlike his wife, general Bonaparte was not up to the task and had been steadily loosing this war. He was a military genius but as far as the clothes were concerned he had a taste of an over-excited magpie and a notion that the uniforms has to be a part of a “moral stimulus” for the military even at expense of their practicality.

He was winning skirmishes here and there but most of his sophisticated maneuvers had been defeated by the primitive: “too expensive”, “not practical for the Russian soldier” and “the greatest stimulus is soldiers’s cross of St. George”.

The gold bride had been cut almost to zero even for the top ranking generals, no waistcoats, boots instead of the shoes (“did you see the roads in Russia and Poland?”) and “chaussette russe” [5] instead of the stockings (“Suvorov himself had been wearing them”). Tricornes for the soldiers and junior officers had been gone but an idea of the huge bearskin hats for the grenadiers was killed and the same happened to the gaiters [6].
The only tactical victory were the hussars uniforms: everybody agreed that they have to be fancy. But this victory was followed by a strategic defeat in the area of saddling. It was pointed out, with a very good reasons that the French don’t know how to take care of their horses and that a proposed idea, while looking nice, will result in the damaged horse backs after few days of a march [7] while one of the Oirat regiments recently arrived to Moscow making few thousands miles of a fast march without losing a single horse. The same argument buried Murat’s expectations regarding high-level cavalry appointment: he was clearly not up to the task beyond the dashing cavalry charges. After a prolonged bargaining he had been made chief of a hussar brigade, aka, a person mostly absent from his position outside a battlefield with the routine duties being responsibility of a brigade commander. On a positive side, it gave him a right to wear a dashing hussar uniform so there was no reason for him to be unhappy.

A wise general knows when to retreat and the Russian army ended up being dressed mostly in dull green…


Things not too important - Peaceful Europe and other trifles

Europe was quiet for a change.

  • The Brits and French did not, yet, figure out what they can start fighting for again and, anyway, explicitly restrained foreign policy of the Consulate was not providing any serious reason for the British public opinion to get into the anti-French frenzy again. But, OTOH, a free trade system was not too beneficial for France because in general the British manufactured goods had been better and cheaper and the French had advantage mostly in the wines and luxury goods. Well, France still had certain logistical advantage in trade with the inland German states across the Rhine. The least damaging solution was to try “non-confrontational” colonial expansion in the areas which the Brits did not penetrate, yet, for example, Indo-China and some parts of Africa. This would also take care about the army, which was still too big for a time of peace. Expeditions had been sent to the potentially promising area to collect information needed for making decisions. In the case of the war over Poland, the Consulate did not have either means or reasons to join on the Austrian-Prussian side and no reason to do so on the BL side. If anything, the Russian diplomacy was persuading the Consuls to remain strictly neutral to avoid expansion of what otherwise will be a regional conflict.
  • The Dutch VOC finally got bankrupt and its possessions and business had been taken over by the Batavian Republic. There was some British pressure to make their possessions on Java more open to the foreigners but so far this issue did not escalate into a significant conflict.
  • By the Treaty of Amiens Spain ceded the island of Trinidadto Britain but recovered Menorca so everything was fine but general Miranda, after being rebuked by the Brits, travelled to New York, where he rekindled his acquaintance with William S. Smith to organize an expedition to liberate Venezuela and, with the US government not being interested in his plans, started raising the funds and volunteers for a private expedition with a purpose to liberate Venezuela. Well, if this is going to be a problem, it will be taken care of in a due time. As of now, Spain was going to enjoy peace.
  • In Sweden Gustav III was mostly interested in opera and masquerades but under pressure from Moscow and his own military was forced to agree to strengthening his army. The strained public finances did not allow a large increase of the regular forces and even though two indelta infantry units were raised in Skåne and the size of the enlisted forces were increased this was not too much so two different systems of reserve recruitment, förstärknings-manskapet and extra roteringen were created. The förstärkningsmanskapet law allowed conscription of up to 50,000 men in the ages 20 to 45 in the case of war. The parishioners would pay those that enlisted voluntary a cash bounty and if willing recruits couldn’t be found to fill the quota, the remainder would be filled by drawing lots among the parish’s farmhands and other men from the poorer strata of society. The extra roteringen allowed, in the case of war, to raise recruits from the nobility lands previously exempt from recruitment.
  • The Kingdom of Naples happily returned back to its normal hibernation state. Cardinal Ruffo was removed from his captain-general position, lazzaroni went back to their favorite dolce far niente life style, few former republicans who were not smart enough to leave had been quietly arrested and imprisoned so everything was just fine.
  • The only minor German state which was going to matter, Hanover, was not targeted by any side in a potential confrontation so there was no visible reason for Britain to get involved.
  • The Ottomans, with the French being removed from Egypt and Septinsular Republic being created as a join Russian-Ottoman vassal, were seemingly quiet except that Ali Pasha of Ioannina started showing a dangerous tendency of getting too independent but so far he was still acting within the acceptable limits and his Albanians proved to be quite useful during the siege of Corfu.
1657743184555.jpeg

Probably, if the need arises, the Ottomans could be persuaded to do some mischief to Austria if its main armies are being stuck elsewhere. Having some fun on the Adriatics, especially if the Russian squadron is led by “Ushak-Pasha”, will definitely be a popular idea among the Ottoman sailors. Sultan’s loyal Serb subjects could be allowed to conduct looting raids across the border and the custom dues could be raised on the Austrian merchandise shipped down the Danube.


Denmark. Christian VII, the King of Denmark-Norway and the Grand Duke of Gottorp, was still of a ..er.. “fragile [mental] health” and the country (or rather “countries”) had been ruled by Prince Regent Frederick who instituted widespread liberal reforms with the assistance of Chief Minister Andreas Peter Bernstorff, including the abolition of serfdom in 1788.

1657761568722.jpeg

There was speculation that he was to marry a Prussian princess, a choice supported by his step-grandmother Juliana Maria and her brother-in-law Frederick the Great. To demonstrate his independence, however, he personally selected his first-cousin Marie Sophie of Hesse-Kassel, a member of a German family with close marriage links with the royal families of both Denmark and Great Britain. They married in Gottorp on 31 July 1790 and had eight children. The main point of his foreign policy was strict adherence to the neutrality, which (so far) was fitting perfectly within framework of the Baltic League. So far he maintained the economic position of the Danish merchants and in spite of problems with both France and England. Domestically, he was a supporter of independent farmers and of the great agrarian reforms (the abolition of Adscription [8] 1788) and other reform laws of the 1790s. During the Anglo-French wars since direct trade was prohibited, the British began to trade through the Danes, who became an ideal intermediary between the two countries: Danish customs officers and merchants had been changing the English stamps on goods on their own and importing them into French ports. Denmark flourished and became rich. The Danish merchant fleet ranked second in the world with 3,344 large merchant ships.
1657761828908.jpeg

The Danish Navy was quite strong: during the 1780s-1790s it maintained a number of 22-27 ships. Danish warships were perfectly built. They could only be disadvantaged with a draft not exceeding 22 feet (6.7 m), and a fairly weak armament of the main deck on part of the ships. In England at that time, 74-gun ships had a 32-pounder while the Danes had only 24-pounder. Danish small ships were used to protect trade and colonies. If suddenly Denmark could not cope with something or someone, most often Russia came to her rescue. In general, the Russian-Danish Union was supported throughout the XVIII century, except for a couple of small complications happening before Denmark joined the Baltic League. It was beneficial for both Denmark (Russia had a powerful fleet and a powerful army) and Russia (the Danish fleet served as a shield against all those who tried to enter the Baltic). However, relations with Britain somewhat soured after in 1797 Denmark refused to protect its own trade convoys by British warships, including in the Mediterranean Sea and the West Indies. Frederick even ordered the captains of Danish military courts to prevent the British from stopping Danish merchant ships for inspection, which was, strictly speaking, well within a framework agreed upon between Britain and Baltic League but still looked as not too friendly gesture to Britain. Fortunately, before things could escalate the War of the Second Coalition(s) was over and for a while the issue was gone.

The Danish-Norwegian army numbered 36,000 but it was not in a very good shape. There was a serious shortage of weapons, ammunition, clothes, food, and many soldiers had uniforms almost 20 years old. The Danish army had 14,650 on paper but in a reality could deploy only over 5,000. The army of Norway was under a separate command (Prince Karl August) and in a reality only approximately 8,000 were ready for war and even then most of them had been garrison troops. An army of the Grand Duchy of Gottorp was more or less a token force garrisoning few major cities.

In other words, in the case of a land war Denmark was not going to be a serious factor but it could contribute substantially to blockade of the Prussian ports if Prince Regent decides to stick to the traditional alliance, which was, after all, purely defensive. But as far as the naval component of such a war was concerned, the Russian and Swedish navies could easily provide such a blockade on the Baltic even without Danish help and, as long as the Ottomans remained friendly, Russian Black Sea fleet could blockade the Austrian ports on the Adriatics using Septinsular Republic as an operational base and probably expecting that Kingdom of Naples is going to be accommodating as well.

But all this will matter later or may not even matter at all and as of now the most important thing was to figure out the proper ways of wearing a shawl. 😂
1657745118923.png


______________
[1] Some high-ranking Austro-Hungarian military about one of the Archdukes. As quoted by Count (and later “comrade”) Aleksey Ignatyev.
[2] Like somewhat “upgrading” a dress so that it does not look as a frivolous nightshirt, not sprinkle it with a water for better clinging to a body, etc.
[3] The same breed brought to France was loosing their down within couple years.
[4] A special order awarded only to the females.
[5] “Онучи” - pieces of fabric for wrapping the legs before putting them in boots.
[6] According to Zamoiski, an infantryman of Napoleonic army had 3 different fastenings behind a knee. Should not make a walk very comfortable.
[7] In 1812 losses of the horses in Great Army was terrible and too many of them had backs torn to the meat by an idiotic saddling.
[8] Serfdom
 
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the King of Denmark-Norway and the Grand Duke of Gottorp
Did Denmark get a personal union with Gottorp along the way?

if Prince Regent decides to stick to the traditional alliance, which was, after all, purely defensive.

Technically true, if this starts by Austrian and Prussian invasion of Poland Denmark wouldn't technically be abided to join the war.

Which is kinda fine, for example Russia in this case wouldn't really be committed to defend any Danish holdings beyond the Baltic see (i believe that alliances should really be limited to common sphere's of influence).

Now on second if Denmark has some other ambitions (maybe Integration of Gottorp in Denmark, something Prussia and Rust could theoretically oppose, then i could see a sense in joining the war).

Sultan’s loyal Serb subjects could be allowed to conduct looting raids across the border and the custom dues could be raised on the Austrian merchan

Is problem with Serbia resolved? I believe in rebellious Janissaries killed Selims governor and are ruling Serbia in this time period. Given that Russo - Ottoman friendship was otl thing until 1804 this shouldn't change. Though given that Russia is friendly and will remain so his ending may be different. Selim III was enlightened Sultan who wanted to centralize the empire and forge diplomatic relationship with Europe (otl it was weary hard due to Ottomans being muslin power, but itl it should be easier to achieve with Russia and actually give some concrete long term benefits opposed to otl). So if Austria is brought distracted and brought down he may be able to expand Sultan's authority and his new army to the Balkans.
 
the King of Denmark-Norway and the Grand Duke of Gottorp
Did Denmark get a personal union with Gottorp along the way?

if Prince Regent decides to stick to the traditional alliance, which was, after all, purely defensive.

Technically true, if this starts by Austrian and Prussian invasion of Poland Denmark wouldn't technically be abided to join the war.

Which is kinda fine, for example Russia in this case wouldn't really be committed to defend any Danish holdings beyond the Baltic see (i believe that alliances should really be limited to common sphere's of influence).

Now on second if Denmark has some other ambitions (maybe Integration of Gottorp in Denmark, something Prussia and Rust could theoretically oppose, then i could see a sense in joining the war).

Sultan’s loyal Serb subjects could be allowed to conduct looting raids across the border and the custom dues could be raised on the Austrian merchan

Is problem with Serbia resolved? I believe in rebellious Janissaries killed Selims governor and are ruling Serbia in this time period. Given that Russo - Ottoman friendship was otl thing until 1804 this shouldn't change. Though given that Russia is friendly and will remain so his ending may be different. Selim III was enlightened Sultan who wanted to centralize the empire and forge diplomatic relationship with Europe (otl it was weary hard due to Ottomans being Muslim power, but itl it should be easier to achieve with Russia and actually give some concrete long term benefits opposed to otl). So if Austria is distracted, brought down he may be able to expand Sultan's authority and his new army to the Balkans (though then again new army was result of Russo -Turkish war 1788-91) and when I think about this war was started by the Ottomans so it's quite possible that given equivalent didn't happen and encouraged by success against France Selim III might be inclined to attack Austria to reclaim Banat and bost his image at home.
 
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Did Denmark get a personal union with Gottorp along the way?

Yes, I mentioned that earlier.

Technically true, if this starts by Austrian and Prussian invasion of Poland Denmark wouldn't technically be abided to join the war.

Which is kinda fine, for example Russia in this case wouldn't really be committed to defend any Danish holdings beyond the Baltic see (i believe that alliances should really be limited to common sphere's of influence).

At least in a (potentially) coming war Prussia will have enough problems without attacking Denmark. And if you are talking about the colonies, it is probably optional: specifics of the Baltic alliance never were defined.


Now on second if Denmark has some other ambitions (maybe Integration of Gottorp in Denmark, something Prussia and Rust could theoretically oppose, then i could see a sense in joining the war).

Why should it integrate Gottorp if the union works?

As for joining the war, D-N-G has too few land forces to be of any serious use so its participation can be almost exclusively naval, and there is no real need in it. Actually, I did not decide on this subject, yet.
Is problem with Serbia resolved? I believe in rebellious Janissaries killed Selims governor and are ruling Serbia in this time period.

When it comes to a free looting, trifles like that are secondary. 😜
Given that Russo - Ottoman friendship was otl thing until 1804 this shouldn't change. Though given that Russia is friendly and will remain so his ending may be different. Selim III was enlightened Sultan who wanted to centralize the empire and forge diplomatic relationship with Europe (otl it was weary hard due to Ottomans being muslin power, but itl it should be easier to achieve with Russia and actually give some concrete long term benefits opposed to otl). So if Austria is brought distracted and brought down he may be able to expand Sultan's authority and his new army to the Balkans.
Quite possible.
 
Why should it integrate Gottorp if the union works?

True i suppose.

As for joining the war, D-N-G has too few land forces to be of any serious use so its participation can be almost exclusively naval, and there is no real need in it. Actually, I did not decide on this subject, yet.

Personally i would say that staying neutral is a better move, as of now D-N-G has no pressing problem with Germanic powers and war doesn't have any concrete gains, plus staying out won't really impact relationship with Russia and Sweden.
 
The downside to staying Neutral is that DNG trade to Prussia might continue. I can imagine that neither Russia or Sweden will be very happy if their Prussian blockade is ineffective because their ally continues to trade with their foe.
 
The downside to staying Neutral is that DNG trade to Prussia might continue. I can imagine that neither Russia or Sweden will be very happy if their Prussian blockade is ineffective because their ally continues to trade with their foe.

Not if DNG respects the blockade. Remember this is not armed neutrality league in which they all abided to allow neutral shipping.

Otherwise if the British,or French decide to do the trade no one will be able to stop them anyway so that isn't big problem, but ultimately in later case Russia and Sweden, or Baltic league as a whole is far more important trade partner to the two than Prussia to cause a problem.
 
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Not if DNG respects the blockade. Remember this is not armed neutrality league in which they all abided to allow neutral shipping.

Otherwise if the British,or French decide to do the trade no one will be able to stop them anyway so that isn't big problem, but ultimately in later case Russia and Sweden, or Baltic league as a whole is far more important trade partner to the two than Prussia to cause a problem.
As I understand, the main points of the German (in general) imports were Amsterdam and Hamburg. Danzig, as a major outlet for the (Polish) grain exports is locked, being Swedish and I doubt that Britain or France are being excessively interested in the Prussian linen (which seems to be the only significant item with a positive export/import balance).

A transit trade by the Russian goods in which Prussia was engaged in OTL is more or less dead ITTL and definitely dead during the war.

The Baltic naval theater is important mostly from the military perspective as a way to provide the Swedish possessions on the German/Polish side with supplies and reinforcements. From this perspective the Danish navy is welcomed but excessive. An option of Britain getting into the war just for being able to trade through Koenigsberg (with what?) seems to be rather unlikely to me.

On Prussian exports/imports:

 
An option of Britain getting into the war just for being able to trade through Koenigsberg (with what?) seems to be rather unlikely to me.

I was more referring to Britain pulling out what Russia did with armed neutrality league. Basically not going to war but demanding neutral shipping to be allowed, if Russia did it with them they can do it with Russia as well.

They are to important of a trade party and to strong naval power for Russia and Sweden to reinforce the blockade on them, though ultimately i did say that Russia and Sweden (rest of the league) are to important trade partners for them to pull it out and trade with Prussia simply isn't worth diplomatic trouble, don't know about Austria though.
 
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I was more referring to Britain pulling out what Russia did with armed neutrality league. Basically not going to war but demanding neutral shipping to be allowed, if Russia did it with them they can do it with Russia as well.
Yes, it can except that it will make little sense by two reasons:
(a) Prussia was not a big importer of anything and even smaller exporter of the goods Britain is interested in (in a time of peace it is doing some transit trade of the Russian and Polish export goods).
(b) The main ports are Hamburg, Amsterdam, Lubeck and Danzig. The first two are not on the Baltic and none of them is Prussian so the naval blockade does not make sense to start with.

Then, as I already explained, the main task of the Swedish and Russian navies is going to be support of the Swedish ports on the Baltic coast: Memel, Elblag, Danzig, Stralsund and Stettin some of which would be besieged by the Prussians.


They are to important of a trade party and to strong naval power for Russia and Sweden to reinforce the blockade on them, though ultimately i did say that Russia and Sweden (rest of the league) are to important trade partners for them to pull it out and trade with Prussia simply isn't worth diplomatic trouble,
As I said, the whole thing is not an issue and there ate mutually agreed upon rules regarding the neutral shipping, blockade, etc. and there is no serious reason for either side to violate them, especially taking into an account a great mutual interest in the good relations. Within this context the OTL Freja incident is a good illustration but ITTL the roles would be reversed. An aggressor will end up making repairs to the damaged ships and returning them.

The fundamental principle remains: “Recognition that neutral vessels escorted by a neutral military vessel cannot be searched if the convoy commander declares that there is no smuggling on ships and ships.

don't know about Austria though.

AFAIK, Austria is not a significant British trade partner and defending the Austrian interests on the Adriatic means breaking relations with the Russians and Ottomans. What for if the rules about blockade are in place?

Unlike OTL ITTL and in a coming conflict the blockade-related agreements are actually favoring the British trade, even if it is not significant, and do not harm Russia and Sweden so why would any of them rock a boat?
 
Sweden's army is not going to be 30-50,000. Sweden in this timeline is still a great power. Perhaps the weakest of the great powers, but still one. OTL it had a population estimated at about 3.3 million (Wikipedia, but in the past found other estimates similar, some for other OTL population estimates) . However, it controls the Baltic provinces, which will have a higher population ATL. Like in the borders of modern Estonia, estimates are around 350k (in 1700, less than half that in 1721, then nearly doubling to 330,000 by early 1800s. It will grow slower ATL given the greater Malthusian pressure, but based on general growth rates in the region, 500,000 might be reasonable. Latvian territories will be nearly double that, Lithuanian slightly over a million by now. So nearly 2.5 million in Baltics, a couple hundred thousand in West Prussia, 150k in bigger Swedish Pomerania, plus Wismar and Bremen-Verdun. About 6.5 million. Except Sweden/Finland had a couple hundred thousand less military and civilian dead, plus avoiding the Caps and Hats incompetent mess. Probably 7 million people or so. Nearly identical to Prussia at this point. So a proportional army to OTL would be 65,000 in peace and 105,000 in war.

Except the army will be also almost certainly be proportionately larger too. It avoided getting gutted in the GNW. Before the GNW it reliably had a larger army on a per-capita basis then Denmark, after that reversed. The Hats and Caps failed to meaningfully help recovery. Plus it has to maintain an army worthy of respect as a great power. It won't be as large as Prussia's though, since it hasn't fought a truely major war in a long time. My personal thought is it will be sort of halfway in between OTL and Prussia in terms of army compared to population. Maybe 95,000 in peacetime, 150,000 in war. Plus a large navy. The navy though will probably be less than double OTL given that it is in a much lower threat environment ATL. A proportionately smaller navy will also allow a proportionately larger army.

Denmark would be wise to be on the allied side in this war. Sweden has been gradually expanding over the last 100 years, while Denmark has not. Denmark OTL had a population of perhaps 2.3 million (including Sleswig-Holstein), about 70% of Sweden's population. ATL, it will have a population just 1/3rd of Sweden's. Norway will not be able to be defended long-term despite its defensibility. And if Prussia proves unable to withstand the combined might of Russia and Sweden lead by Napoleon, then Jutland/Sleswig-Holstein will be overrun. Given Russia and Sweden also have significantly larger naval forces, Denmark better hope the British decide to warn Sweden/Russia not to be too greedy as they won't have much of a bargaining position.

That will be the interesting thing. Russia has very little it wants to gain territorially from Austria, Prussia, or Denmark. However, Sweden has a lot it would like to gain in a perfect world: Norway, maybe more land for their relatives in Sleswig-Holstein, border adjustments with Prussia. This will be especially relevant if Prussia more or less completely collapses (and Denmark following) like in the OTL War of Fourth Coalition, but Archduke Charles manages to keep a Austrian army in being, like in the Third (he had a large army in Hungary, really Austria could have kept fighting on after Austerlitz, if they had the will, which understandably they did not) and Fifth Coalitions, so preventing a peace by fiat. Sweden would actually control most of that wish-list, and might need Russia and Britain to very strongly recommend trimming it down.
 
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Denmark would be wise to be on the allied side in this war. Sweden has been gradually expanding over the last 100 years, while Denmark has not. Denmark OTL had a population of perhaps 2.3 million (including Sleswig-Holstein), about 70% of Sweden's population. ATL, it will have a population just 1/3rd of Sweden's. Norway will not be able to be defended long-term despite its defensibility. And if Prussia proves unable to withstand the combined might of Russia and Sweden lead by Napoleon, then Jutland/Sleswig-Holstein will be overrun. Given Russia and Sweden also have significantly larger naval forces, Denmark better hope the British decide to warn Sweden/Russia not to be too greedy as they won't have much of a bargaining position.

Denmark is a member of Baltic league and an ally, question really is does Denmark wants to join this war in which it doesn't have as much stake, or stay benevolently neutral towards other league members. In this case neutrality doesn't really mean end of the alliance with Sweden/Russia as it contributions would be largely minimal anyway and strength of Danish alliance lies elsewhere anyway (like closing the Baltic sea for enemy fleets, etc) so Denmark should be able to maintain its position in alliance . For example in Crimean war Russia just asked Austria to be neutral , which Austria failed to do thus ending it's alliance with Russia, so we can assume that staying neutral would have preserved it (on second hand participating would potentially create unnecessary bad will with Prussia (not that it matters, but why bother).

Otherwise Russia doesn't have any pretensions towards Denmark, nor would it want Sweden to crash it's diplomatic network in the Baltic over territorial pretensions towards Norway (that Diplomatic network worked fine for Sweden as well), regarding Sleswig-Holstein, it already is in personal union with Denmark.

Otherwise this is only war to reinforce the partition of Poland and keep the staus qou so there won't be a big territorial changes on anyone's part (in Sweden's case expanding further in Germany would probably be unwise as minor gains just set up future wars and major gains make European politics uncomfortable).

Sweden's army is not going to be 30-50,000. Sweden in this timeline is still a great power. Perhaps the weakest of the great powers, but still one. OTL it had a population estimated at about 3.3 million (Wikipedia, but in the past found other estimates similar, some for other OTL population estimates) . However, it controls the Baltic provinces, which will have a higher population ATL. Like in the borders of modern Estonia, estimates are around 350k (in 1700, less than half that in 1721, then nearly doubling to 330,000 by early 1800s. It will grow slower ATL given the greater Malthusian pressure, but based on general growth rates in the region, 500,000 might be reasonable. Latvian territories will be nearly double that, Lithuanian slightly over a million by now. So nearly 2.5 million in Baltics, a couple hundred thousand in West Prussia, 150k in bigger Swedish Pomerania, plus Wismar and Bremen-Verdun. About 6.5 million. Except Sweden/Finland had a couple hundred thousand less military and civilian dead, plus avoiding the Caps and Hats incompetent mess. Probably 7 million people or so. Nearly identical to Prussia at this point. So a proportional army to OTL would be 65,000 in peace and 105,000 in war.

Except the army will be also almost certainly be proportionately larger too. It avoided getting gutted in the GNW. Before the GNW it reliably had a larger army on a per-capita basis then Denmark, after that reversed. The Hats and Caps failed to meaningfully help recovery. Plus it has to maintain an army worthy of respect as a great power. It won't be as large as Prussia's though, since it hasn't fought a truely major war in a long time. My personal thought is it will be sort of halfway in between OTL and Prussia in terms of army compared to population. Maybe 95,000 in peacetime, 150,000 in war. Plus a large navy. The navy though will probably be less than double OTL given that it is in a much lower threat environment ATL. A proportionately smaller navy will also allow a proportionately larger army.

I kinda agree to this, despite not participating in a lot of wars Sweden will probably be able to occupy a large chunks of Prussian army (maybe this war results in some military lessons as well), while Russia focuses on Austria and gives support to Sweden.
 
Well i was little bored so heres PDF map of Russia together with its Euroasian possessions (Alaska isn't included, but its part of Russia). Otherwise im not sure about Uriankhai between Russia and China, i believe them to be Qing vassals but im not sure and they could weary well be part of Russia.
 

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Well i was little bored so heres PDF map of Russia together with its Euroasian possesions (Alaska isnt inclued, but its part of Russia). Otherwise im not sure about Uriankhai between Russia and China, i believe them to be Qing vassalm but im not sure.
Thanks, it looks nice. What tool are you using?

Uriankhai region became Russian protectorate only in 1914 so no problem there.

As for the Denmark & Sweden discussion, we are in synch regarding Denmark’s position of friendly neutrality: it does not have a big army and Grand Duchy of Gottorp would risk invasion from Prussia if D-N-G risks an open confrontation before Prussia is seriously beaten.

Sweden is still a little bit of a question mark to me. Based strictly upon the population army it should be able to raise a big army but:

(a) With the decades of peace and alliance with Russia there was no reason to maintain a big army even within framework of the old settlement system: keeping these troops properly trained and armed would still require a lot of money and ITTL Sweden is much more into the improving domestic situation then maintaining Great Power status. Having happy population is more important that outsiders’ opinion.
(b) While all population of the Swedish Empire is formally equal, some animals are more equal than other. Swedes and Finns are “the most equal” as far as the military service (and underlying framework) is involved. The Baltic Provinces less so: their nobility is loyal and a great source of the officers but the peasants are in de facto serfdom (to guarantee nobility’s loyalty), do not speak Swedish or German and can’t be easily incorporated on the same schema as Swedes and Finns without risking rebellion against their German landlords and perhaps even Sweden. The newly acquired part of Lithuania is even worse in this regard and in a general loyalty so creating a modern local military force is almost a definite road to a rebellion (rump Lithuania is just across the border). The cities of Pomerania, Danzig, etc. can provide their own garrisons but will need Swedish help with the regular troops, artillery and supplies (ITTL and in OTL) Danzig left to its own devices was taken more than once. Bremen is hardly a major source of the troops and too far away to supply troops for a “main front” so at best this region can held with some Swedish backing until the Prussians are beaten elsewhere or it can be occupied by Prussia and then returned (with compensation).
So in practical terms Swedish field force would include trained Swedish and Finnish troops, Swedish garrisons from the Baltic provinces and some Baltic contingents which the Swedish crown maintains in a descent shape.

But there is no real need in having a big Swedish field army ITTL: as far as the Prussian and Austrian military plans for an aggressive war go, they are going to be realistic - concentrate on the territory and geographic points instead of targeting an enemy. So the aspiring conquerors will be running in all directions simultaneously having numerous targets, none of which is critical for winning a war. And OTOH we have alt-Nappy who, just for change, does not have his forces spread all over Germany and/or multiple theaters. With enough of his own troops, a medium sized allied force is much more convenient in the terms of coordination than a big one.
 
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