No German naval expansion under Wilhelm II

Are you saying you can't understand the simplest point or that you can understand so you try and change the subject?

steve... tsts, you have the problem of wankism... i just tried to help you
if you learn how unimportant "your" nation is today, you maybe start to be less problematic?

we even agree about the russian army in another plot, but you still repeat your silly "everything is about balance-of-power" (right) but ignore the facts (that ecerything is about balance-of-power!:p:) - economically)

you can add some numbers... look at the development in numbers for greatbritain and german kaiserreich... from 1872-1914

now explain why the germans can change anything about the confrontation by NOT building a fleet.

Germany and great britain in the early 20th century means war. early or late... maybe you do not know what certain british politicans said in 1906 about invasion in germany? (i like the idea, they try to land and later on they need to beg for the return of their army:D)

you should just accept that some things are not for moral positions (defend belgium) but for ecomic decisions, made 10 or 20 years before.

it is still hope

and - i do not change the subject

the subject is that you fail that economic motivation was the biggest movement in the 19th and 20th century... hitler, for example NEEDED the war with poland, cause otherwise germany had been bankrupted... it was since early 1939... even with the money they found in slowakia...

so i suggest you really calm down and look deeper in such things

thank you
 
germany was the big enemy for great britain, with no german battlefleet the brits act like they did in 1899/1900... just to make sure their ECONOMICAL enemy will be beaten.

if this happen - say in 1908, latest after this event the germans will build a fleet to make sure britain think twice about it.

the brits had done this earlier and would do it again... not only for military purpose but also economical interests...

it is like today, american intelligence organisations spy in forein countries and give informations to american industries... so military and economic forces work together... just the brits do it with ships and "sizing" foreign ships...

who has the second largest merchant fleet in 1914? germany
who is pissed of about this? great britain

so - ignore the german fleet the rivality... nope. if germany stay an third level country in economic things, britain will love the "krauts"... but with big business involved the germans will be "the" enemy... so germany can "decide" to not harm british interests (we do speak about economical things) and be a friend, or care for itself and be an enemy...

if france had been even stronger as germany in economical things, great britain had sided with germany....

cui bono... :eek:

Britain's traditional enemies were France and Russia and the latter was in a great position to menace India had it really wanted to. If Germany does not provoke Britain fear of France and Russia together might lead to an Anglo-German alliance *if* France and Russia are either 1) beneficiaries of a completely different geopolitical climate with a POD that predates the German Empire itself or 2) grabbing the Idiot Ball and running to the End Zone.
 
Britain's traditional enemies were France and Russia and the latter was in a great position to menace India had it really wanted to. If Germany does not provoke Britain fear of France and Russia together might lead to an Anglo-German alliance *if* France and Russia are either 1) beneficiaries of a completely different geopolitical climate with a POD that predates the German Empire itself or 2) grabbing the Idiot Ball and running to the End Zone.


As long as you avoid to recognice reallity, you are right.

in reallity, the brits are allways in the french camp cause germany is economically STRONGER, has a stronger army, is leading in most modern areas (germany is ahead in technological key elements)...

war is about economy... the british empire was untill the usa/germany/russia got industrialized the biggest player... with germany beating france and the usa developing so fast, they lost this advantage...

napoleon lost the war with great britain, cause the latter had more money. So it could pay money to austria, to russia, to prussia... with this money these countries could fight napoleon. if france had been econmical stronger, he had given more money and they had not fight him. that is the fact.

so in any plot that gives germany the same economic development germany and great britain are enemies. that is the whole thing... if the brits accept their inferioity in economic terms, they also do not need to fear german navy. but the british interest in economic ways are different to the german interests. so the brits need to have the (theoretically) chance to size the german merchant fleet (like they did in 1914-1919) and "kill" the economical knife at britains throat.
that is the danger... the rest is icing on the cake... wilhelm helped the media and the politicans to make the fake true, but with no ship build the brits will be in the camp of france.

why? cause russia was "weak", france was even seen weaker (they remembered 1870... everything was over after the first battle, the rest was just some show), so they knew (like in real life) that without them in the french camp the french are doomed.

russia came in late, but because of the french movements... the sad truth is that with a weaker france no ww1... cause in this scenario you get an local war between austria and serbia (or not, serbia will surrender)... no ww1, no massacre. not yet. the war start in the moment the russians are strong enough... everything was planned.

this doesn´t say that the german army not also wanted to make a war early enough (say, in 1906 - in this time france is crashed, russia is helpless and great britain, well it has a fleet and take german colonies (if they real go to war), but if they do, germany take france (at will) and keep it:D)

so all side had their plans... but the french one was 43years old

oh, traditional enemies are fine, but if the old worn out dog is replaced by the 500pound big ugly gorilla, even strong enough to beat yourself, the old worn out dog is suddenly your best friend, right?)
1870 changed everything, cause german economy exploded (partly cause the french fired it with the money they had to pay)...
 
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As long as you avoid to recognice reallity, you are right.

in reallity, the brits are allways in the french camp cause germany is economically STRONGER, has a stronger army, is leading in most modern areas (germany is ahead in technological key elements)...

war is about economy... the british empire was untill the usa/germany/russia got industrialized the biggest player... with germany beating france and the usa developing so fast, they lost this advantage...

napoleon lost the war with great britain, cause the latter had more money. So it could pay money to austria, to russia, to prussia... with this money these countries could fight napoleon. if france had been econmical stronger, he had given more money and they had not fight him. that is the fact.

so in any plot that gives germany the same economic development germany and great britain are enemies. that is the whole thing... if the brits accept their inferioity in economic terms, they also do not need to fear german navy. but the british interest in economic ways are different to the german interests. so the brits need to have the (theoretically) chance to size the german merchant fleet (like they did in 1914-1919) and "kill" the economical knife at britains throat.
that is the danger... the rest is icing on the cake... wilhelm helped the media and the politicans to make the fake true, but with no ship build the brits will be in the camp of france.

why? cause russia was "weak", france was even seen weaker (they remembered 1870... everything was over after the first battle, the rest was just some show), so they knew (like in real life) that without them in the french camp the french are doomed.

russia came in late, but because of the french movements... the sad truth is that with a weaker france no ww1... cause in this scenario you get an local war between austria and serbia (or not, serbia will surrender)... no ww1, no massacre. not yet. the war start in the moment the russians are strong enough... everything was planned.

this doesn´t say that the german army not also wanted to make a war early enough (say, in 1906 - in this time france is crashed, russia is helpless and great britain, well it has a fleet and take german colonies (if they real go to war), but if they do, germany take france (at will) and keep it:D)

so all side had their plans... but the french one was 43years old

Always? They didn't seem to be in the Wars of Succession, the Seven Years' War, the American Revolution, the Great French War.....:rolleyes:

Britain siding with Germany is not impossible, nor is its alliance with its two traditional rivals inevitable. That alliance was shaky and ill-supported as it was, it was stronger than the Central Powers alliance which was all it needed to be. Russia is in a prime position to menace India, the defense of which was the cornerstone on which was laid the entirety of the British Empire. France is similarly positioned in Indochina and in North Africa. With France British rivalry had stretched into the 17th Century and France had already contributed to one collapse of the British Empire.

Russia, the growing juggernaut, positioned squarely to menace India overland and in a continual rivalry over Persia and the ever-present desire of the Tsars for the Dardanelles Straits.....Germany's belligerence made all three putting aside their differences for that war possible. It was not from amity, and if amity had been the cause Britain would instead have sided with the Germans.
 
As long as you avoid to recognice reallity, you are right.

in reallity, the brits are allways in the french camp cause germany is economically STRONGER, has a stronger army, is leading in most modern areas (germany is ahead in technological key elements)...

war is about economy... the british empire was untill the usa/germany/russia got industrialized the biggest player... with germany beating france and the usa developing so fast, they lost this advantage...

napoleon lost the war with great britain, cause the latter had more money. So it could pay money to austria, to russia, to prussia... with this money these countries could fight napoleon. if france had been econmical stronger, he had given more money and they had not fight him. that is the fact.

so in any plot that gives germany the same economic development germany and great britain are enemies. that is the whole thing... if the brits accept their inferioity in economic terms, they also do not need to fear german navy. but the british interest in economic ways are different to the german interests. so the brits need to have the (theoretically) chance to size the german merchant fleet (like they did in 1914-1919) and "kill" the economical knife at britains throat.
that is the danger... the rest is icing on the cake... wilhelm helped the media and the politicans to make the fake true, but with no ship build the brits will be in the camp of france.

why? cause russia was "weak", france was even seen weaker (they remembered 1870... everything was over after the first battle, the rest was just some show), so they knew (like in real life) that without them in the french camp the french are doomed.

russia came in late, but because of the french movements... the sad truth is that with a weaker france no ww1... cause in this scenario you get an local war between austria and serbia (or not, serbia will surrender)... no ww1, no massacre. not yet. the war start in the moment the russians are strong enough... everything was planned.

this doesn´t say that the german army not also wanted to make a war early enough (say, in 1906 - in this time france is crashed, russia is helpless and great britain, well it has a fleet and take german colonies (if they real go to war), but if they do, germany take france (at will) and keep it:D)

so all side had their plans... but the french one was 43years old

oh, traditional enemies are fine, but if the old worn out dog is replaced by the 500pound big ugly gorilla, even strong enough to beat yourself, the old worn out dog is suddenly your best friend, right?)
1870 changed everything, cause german economy exploded (partly cause the french fired it with the money they had to pay)...
Germany taking France in WWI?:rolleyes: You are underestimating France.
 
So I think there are two obvious questions here:

1) does this somehow dial down international tensions/German confidence/Entente confidence in a way that avoids OTL WWI?

2) if OTL WWI isn't avoided, does this keep Britain out?

I think the second answer is clearly 'NO', because its the balance of power and the Belgium invasion that really bring the UK in. But the first is very possible, IMO.
 
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