No French Revolution - how long would the Comtat Venaissin remain Papal territory?

I'm about halfway through a fairly entertaining (and fairly depressing) book about the Avignon Papacy, and it got me to wondering - if there had been no French Revolution, how long could the Papal States have held on to their little French enclave? Was the Kingdom of France likely to annex the territory at all? It had been in place, absent the Popes, for quite some time, after all.

Any speculation from those more informed on the subject than I?
 
I think that it would be eventually annexed. France had occupied the territory off and on for centuries when the Pope did something against France. An interesting thing would be if the Papal States held on to Avignon until Italian Unification. Would the Church move from Rome back to Avignon or would France annex it? Would the Popes retain temporal power up to today?
 
I think that it would be eventually annexed. France had occupied the territory off and on for centuries when the Pope did something against France.

Probably, although a compromise where Avignon itself remains Papal territory while the rest is annexed to France seems slightly plausible (sort of a Vatican City writ large).

An interesting thing would be if the Papal States held on to Avignon until Italian Unification. Would the Church move from Rome back to Avignon or would France annex it? Would the Popes retain temporal power up to today?

I think it'd take some contrivances to get the popes to relocate to Avignon - it has such bad historical connotations. Even if a pope was physically exiled from Italy entirely, there'd be more likely places to go (somewhere else in France, maybe Lourdes or Mont Saint-Michel, Spain, Portugal, Ireland).

OTOH, a century or two more of a less hedonistic Papal Avignon might make it less "OMG Babylonian Captivity 2.0!!1!" Combine that with a stubborn pope and a hostile Italian government, and you might just manage it after all. It's a very interesting image, at any rate.
 
I think it'd take some contrivances to get the popes to relocate to Avignon - it has such bad historical connotations. Even if a pope was physically exiled from Italy entirely, there'd be more likely places to go (somewhere else in France, maybe Lourdes or Mont Saint-Michel, Spain, Portugal, Ireland).

OTOH, a century or two more of a less hedonistic Papal Avignon might make it less "OMG Babylonian Captivity 2.0!!1!" Combine that with a stubborn pope and a hostile Italian government, and you might just manage it after all. It's a very interesting image, at any rate.

Not necessarily. Why would the Pope go somewhere else if he still ruled over Avignon? However, if the Pope flees to govern from Avignon, I wonder what would happen to the Vatican itself? Would the Italian Government seize it outright? Or would Italy perhaps appoint its own Pope?
 
Not necessarily. Why would the Pope go somewhere else if he still ruled over Avignon? However, if the Pope flees to govern from Avignon, I wonder what would happen to the Vatican itself? Would the Italian Government seize it outright? Or would Italy perhaps appoint its own Pope?

Rival popes in Rome and Avignon - everything old is new again :D

As far as the Vatican goes, the Italians would probably seize most of it and make it into royal palaces, ministry offices, etc, while keeping St. Peter's as a church (or a museum if they're really anti-Catholic).
 
Technically all church property belongs to the Pope, that was even more true during the Ancien Regime. Without a French Revolution secular rule throughout Europe would probably be reduced. Papal power in Italy itself would be much safer, and since Austria would remain a French ally they would probably peacefully divide Italy into spheres of influence.
 
Rival popes in Rome and Avignon - everything old is new again :D

As far as the Vatican goes, the Italians would probably seize most of it and make it into royal palaces, ministry offices, etc, while keeping St. Peter's as a church (or a museum if they're really anti-Catholic).

:D.

But in all honesty I doubt they would change St. Peters. Its one of the most famous churches in the world. Plus Italy only started being anti-Catholic when the Pope became anti-Italy. With their own Pope (or hell maybe they'll make the King of Italy Pope) they might not be so anti-church.
 
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