No Fog Over Munich

[SteveW]

Interesting...but I do wonder why they did not keep Goebbels as Propaganda...he was actually very good at that. Wasn't Ohnesorge the postmaster? What makes him a good choice for Propaganda?

Just asking I do find what you are doing interesting!

Cheers! It's to keep him the tent pissing out, so to speak-but it denies him his old platform. Ohnesorge is a place-man.

As for Speer, he's popped up because the new Nazi regime is more technocratic and less ideological.

 

[SteveW]

Mussolini was both concerned and intrigued by developments. Naturally, he was worried about how his ally's demise might affect him. But on the otherhand, he was now once again the pre-eminent Fascist in Europe.

He was quite pleased to receive a telephone call from Chancellor Raeder on the 11th November. The news, however, was grim. It was becoming clear than the Soviet Union was bent on invading Finland, buoyed by the pact Hitler had signed. Keitel did not want this, and had told Raeder to push forward a plan.

Much as had happened in Spain, he wanted 'anti-communist volunteers'. These volunteers were to come from Alpini regiments and would be flown to Finland in German planes and provided with weaponry. Promises were made, which would not as yet be made clear. But nonetheless, Mussolini agreed that several hundred men would 'volunteer'.

With France not looking likely to attack any time soon, Keitel was intent on sitting tight and trying to avoid the (currently) non-belligerent Soviets gaining the upper hand in the Baltic.

 

[Wendell]

If this regime is less ideological in its bent, which I think is accurate to say from what I've read herein, then how are the Poles and others undesired by the prior regime faring under occupation?

 

[Trotsky]

If this regime is less ideological in its bent, which I think is accurate to say from what I've read herein, then how are the Poles and others undesired by the prior regime faring under occupation?

Operation TANNENBERG and the suppression of the Church is already well underway in Poland. Things might improve for the Poles, but that doesn't help the already tens of thousands already killed.

 

[Wendell]

Operation TANNENBERG and the suppression of the Church is already well underway in Poland. Things might improve for the Poles, but that doesn't help the already tens of thousands already killed.

Indeed, but I was wondering just how different the new regime would be from that which preceded it.

 

[Trotsky]

Indeed, but I was wondering just how different the new regime would be from that which preceded it.

Ideologically...trimmed down a lot.

Pragmatically...this is a German Army occupation zone. It's not going to be great, or even good.

 

[Wendell]

Ideologically...trimmed down a lot.

Pragmatically...this is a German Army occupation zone. It's not going to be great, or even good.

Point taken.

 

[Trotsky]

Point taken.

Indeed. Expect hostage-takings and executions if franc-tireur action occurs. Loads of requisitioning of Polish foodstuffs and supplies. The obvious curfews that come with any martial law situation, enforced with German ruthlessness. Concentration camps may even remain open for Polish politicals. The war is still on, and Germany ain't going to take shit from anybody.

 

[Johnrankins]

Indeed. Expect hostage-takings and executions if franc-tireur action occurs. Loads of requisitioning of Polish foodstuffs and supplies. The obvious curfews that come with any martial law situation, enforced with German ruthlessness. Concentration camps may even remain open for Polish politicals. The war is still on, and Germany ain't going to take shit from anybody.

True enough, but probably not as murderous with Hitler and Himmler out of the picture. It's very bad but still much better than OTL, which is not saying much.

 

[Trotsky]

True enough, but probably not as murderous with Hitler and Himmler out of the picture. It's very bad but still much better than OTL, which is not saying much.

It's hard to beat or even compare to Hitler and Himmler in the field of murder. Unless you're Stalin's henchmen, who would still be ruling the eastern third of Poland after Hitler's assassination ITTL.

 

[Colonel By]

How does the new situation affect the invasion of France?

As I recall, at the time of Elser's assasination attempt, the Germans were still planning to carry out Fall Gelb in the fall of 1939. Nov. 9 was a key decision date in the planning cycle, which was why Hitler was in a rush to get back to Berlin.

Depending on when exactly the invasion was scheduled to be carried out, the new regime would have to make some quick decisions about the invasion plan. I think we can assume there would be a postponement. Given how late in the year it already was, such a delay would presumably push the invasion back to the spring. But would it have just been postponed? Or would the invasion of France have been cancelled?

In short, what would the new regime's position on the war with the UK and France be?

 

[Johnrankins]

I think it would have been postponed because time was not on Germany's side and unless Gemany makes some major concessions I think France will invade. It might do so fairly early if the situation in Germany is chaotic enough.

 

[mrmandias]

In Berlin, General Keitel, head of the OKW (Supreme Command), had been informed that evening of Keitel's demise.

I imagine he was surprised.

 

[Deleted member 1487]

Hitler was the one pushing for November, it was his generals that talked him out of it. The generals did not want to invade for the most part and without Hitler it is likely to be just be a rehash of Schlieffen's plan. Manstein's idea was only accepted after Hitler forced it on his generals.

 

[DuQuense]

Hitler postponed construction of the East Wall as Unneeded. Russian would be Conquered before It could be completed.
The Generals may see things otherwise and push forward with the East Wall.

Labour: Albert Speer

Albert Speer is an Architect, Not sure how well regarded in Architectural Circles [has to be some reason Hitler choose him].
But he only got his Promotion to Run the War supply after the war production building was bombed and the production plans were destroyed,
Someone had to redo all the Plans, and Hitler picked his friend and personal Architect, due to the Friendship.
No one before or even during the Picking, could know Speers would do such a great job.
ITTL General Keitel would pick someone from the Production Dept, probably some Engineering General.

He was quite pleased to receive a telephone call from Chancellor Raeder on the 11th November. The news, however, was grim. It was becoming clear than the Soviet Union was bent on invading Finland, buoyed by the pact Hitler had signed. Keitel did not want this, and had told Raeder to push forward a plan.

Much as had happened in Spain, he wanted 'anti-communist volunteers'. These volunteers were to come from Alpini regiments and would be flown to Finland in German planes and provided with weaponry. Promises were made, which would not as yet be made clear. But nonetheless, Mussolini agreed that several hundred men would 'volunteer'.

With France not looking likely to attack any time soon, Keitel was intent on sitting tight and trying to avoid the (currently) non-belligerent Soviets gaining the upper hand in the Baltic.

?Any chance that Germany may funnel some supplies to the Anti Russian resistance in the Baltics.?

 

[SteveW]

Hitler postponed construction of the East Wall as Unneeded. Russian would be Conquered before It could be completed.
The Generals may see things otherwise and push forward with the East Wall.


?Any chance that Germany may funnel some supplies to the Anti Russian resistance in the Baltics.?

The Baltic might be a step too far in terms of naffing off the Russians-with Finland, there's 3rd parties to use. But a point I will consider.

 

[SteveW]

Now in charge of Germany's foreign policy, Goering was intent on reining in some of Hitler's more outlandish plans. He was far more interested in recreating the past, rather than this strange and foggy notion of Lebensraum. He was formulating a few plans which might help, if not to win the war, then to force a stalemate beneficial to Germany.

Firstly, he fully intended to build up the Hungarians as a key ally in Central Europe, and get Horthy to do his bidding. This was to be done by a combination of military and economic aid.

Secondly, in a view shared by Keitel, there was to be no further direct German occupation east of the German-Soviet border, unless a future war were to occur with the Soviet Union. At any rate, he would not be the man to provoke it.

Thirdly, he would seek peace with Britain, or at least force Britain into a stalemate.

Fourthly, France would be shown no mercy, and would be crushed as soon as possible.

 

[SteveW]

On 26th November 1939, the inevitable occurred and an 'incident' passed off at Mainila, on the Finno-Russian border. The Soviets staged a shelling by Finnish troops, and then demanded that the Finns retreat 25 kilometres behind the border. Denying responsiblity, the Finns refused. The Soviet Union therefore 'geared up' for war, which in this case meant putting all the attacking divisions that they had amassed on the border on standby to invade.

On the suggestion of German officers sent by the new government as military attaches, and buoyed by intelligence reports from Karelian pro-Finland sympathisers on the Soviet side of the border, Finnish commandos crossed the border into Karelia in the early hours of the 29th November on skis. With the 9th Army sat preparing, it was a particulalry risky tactic.

At 4 a.m. that morning, an explosion tore through an arms dump, killing (according to Soviet secret files recently obtained) 189 men, wounding over 400 and destroying a soup kitchen, communications post and blowing a hole in the Soviet chain of communications.

The Winter War had begun.

 

[SteveW]

After dawn of the 29th November, there was chaos smack in the middle of the Soviet attacking line on the Finnish border. Not only had the communication line been cut, but the Finns had air-dropped (thanks to a generous Italian donation) weaponry to ethnic Karelians, who were harrying Soviet troops passing along the forest roads. In essence, the 9th Army's leader, ComKor Duhanov, was not entirely sure of Moscow's orders, but was also struggling to keep up with exactly where some of his officers were.

The Russians made no complaint about the incidents in the early hours. Admitting that the Finns had been able to infiltrate their territory would have been simply too embarassing, but the comms lines were now cut and so even if they had wanted to claim a provocation, there would have been no opportunity.

There was of course a real advantage for the Finns in their foray. They now knew exactly where the 9th Army's planes were based.

 

[Grimm Reaper]

So when does Keitel get over the shock of his own death?