No Emperor Franz Joseph.
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I'd wonder how he'd do in Austria, considering how much of a failure he was in Mexico. Granted, in Mexico he was seen as a foreigner overthrowing the rightful president Benito Juárez (not to mention how much indemnities Napoleon III demanded). He will probably be more liberal than Franz Joseph at least, given some of his actions in Mexico (providing a pension to a Cinco de Mayo widow, even though that war brought him to power in the first place). However, he still followed the strict etiquette of the Austrian court in Mexico. He will probably please no one at a tipping point in Austria's history.
The source for my speculations is:
Maximilian in Mexico: A Woman's Reminiscences of the French Intervention 1862-1867 by Sara Yorke Stevenson.
Unless he's Holy Roman Emperor it would simply be Emperor Maximilian.
unprincipled peter
Donor
dunno how much you can read into the Mexico adventure. It was a foreign culture that he was totally unprepared for. He'd been told he was coming in by the will of the people, which was a flat out lie. He could have been the greatest ruler of all time, but the Mexicans would have hated him from the start.
Much of the barriers he faced in Mexico would not have existed in Austria. He still would have had a tough row to hoe, but nowhere near as tough as the one he faced in Mexico.
Much of the barriers he faced in Mexico would not have existed in Austria. He still would have had a tough row to hoe, but nowhere near as tough as the one he faced in Mexico.
I mentioned some of those issues in my previous post (French aggression, foreign ruler, etc.) However, Maximilian and his court made significant mistakes on their own which sealed their fate. A minor one was an incident where a Mexican woman tried to give the empress a traditional embrace, only for this to happen "the tall Empress stepped back and drew herself up to her full height at what she regarded an undue liberty, while tears of indignation came into her eyes. Whereupon the poor señora was dissolved in tears. . .". At least some Mexicans were willing to support him, including the conservative priesthood who disliked Juárez's anticlerical policies.
His appointees were apparently not much better. His friend Eloin ". . .did not speak one word of Spanish, hated the French, despised the Mexicans, and was more ignorant than his master himself of American questions. . .While in office he used his power to repress much of the impulse given to enterprise by the French." A Belgian diplomat said "To eat priest for breakfast and Frenchman for dinner, when one has been called to the throne by the clergy, and must rely upon France for sole support, may be regarded as a dangerous policy." As for Austria, Maximilian seemed to have pretensions for the throne even though he was supposed to renounce succession rights to gain Mexico.
Yes, Maximilian was in a bad situation from the start. He then proceeded to make it worse by alienating his allies and choosing his friends poorly. He would probably have been a lousy Austrian emperor. Even though Austria was used to Habsburgs, there was still the issue of nationalism that was hostile to the crown.
My source is Sara Yorke Stevenson as before.
Do you know anything about his time in Austria before Mexico that suggests that things might have turned out differently? (sincere question, not sarcasm).
Viceroy of Lombardy-Venetia
In his political views, Archduke Ferdinand Max was very much influenced by the progressive ideas in vogue at the time. He had a reputation as a liberal, and this led, in February 1857, to his appointment as viceroy of the Kingdom of Lombardy-Venetia.
Emperor Franz Joseph was not really sure that the Archduke’s appointment as Viceroy was the right thing to do because he thought that his brother would be far too liberal for such an important position.
Maximilian was enthusiastic and saw the chance to show that his ideas of a liberal form of monarchy would be a benefit.
Archduke Maximilian had made no secret of the fact that he had long favored granting greater freedom and self-government to the two most significant non-German populations of the Austrian Empire; the Hungarians and the Italians. For the Emperor, who took his example from the very conservative Emperor Francis I, change was to be avoided at almost any cost. For the new Viceroy, change was essential and he thought himself just the man for the job.
In his political views, Archduke Ferdinand Max was very much influenced by the progressive ideas in vogue at the time. He had a reputation as a liberal, and this led, in February 1857, to his appointment as viceroy of the Kingdom of Lombardy-Venetia.
Emperor Franz Joseph was not really sure that the Archduke’s appointment as Viceroy was the right thing to do because he thought that his brother would be far too liberal for such an important position.
Maximilian was enthusiastic and saw the chance to show that his ideas of a liberal form of monarchy would be a benefit.
Archduke Maximilian had made no secret of the fact that he had long favored granting greater freedom and self-government to the two most significant non-German populations of the Austrian Empire; the Hungarians and the Italians. For the Emperor, who took his example from the very conservative Emperor Francis I, change was to be avoided at almost any cost. For the new Viceroy, change was essential and he thought himself just the man for the job.
Great post! I was wondering if he'd do anything different in Austria. Only problem is, what happens when the other minorities start demanding these kind of rights too? Where'd you get this information from?
Crucial question is what sort of generals he appoints.
OTL, he appointed Admiral Tegethoff, who saw off the Italian fleet at Lissa. That's a positive sign, but of course could have been just beginner's luck. At all events, whoever he chooses can't possibly be worse than Gyulai, to whom FJ gave the command in 1859. If he can win the 1859 war (or better still not start it) there's no reason why he shouldn't die of old age.
OTL, he appointed Admiral Tegethoff, who saw off the Italian fleet at Lissa. That's a positive sign, but of course could have been just beginner's luck. At all events, whoever he chooses can't possibly be worse than Gyulai, to whom FJ gave the command in 1859. If he can win the 1859 war (or better still not start it) there's no reason why he shouldn't die of old age.
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Max Sinister
Banned
After all I read, I think he might have been smarter than his brother, and certainly was more liberal. His problem: The Mexican liberals didn't want an emperor at all, and the Mexican monarchists didn't want a liberal emperor. (Maybe Franz Joseph would have been the better choice for the job - what an irony.) And as you have stated, he didn't know that much about Mexico. At least that would have been different in Europe.
Franz-Joseph had to accept the Hungarians as equal partners in 1867, so there wouldn't be too much change. The interesting question would be: What happens with the 1859 war? Would Napoleon still be Austria's enemy? And before that, there's the Crimean War. Would Maximilian join the western powers?
Franz-Joseph had to accept the Hungarians as equal partners in 1867, so there wouldn't be too much change. The interesting question would be: What happens with the 1859 war? Would Napoleon still be Austria's enemy? And before that, there's the Crimean War. Would Maximilian join the western powers?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_of_Greater_Austria
With a liberal Emperor i can see as probable a inevitable evolution long this road.
Well, now the A-H empire had some change of survive; Maximillian more liberal policy can create the framework for a reform of the Empire unlike Franz Joseph whose ultraconservative policy basically put all the problem under the figurative rug till it was too late.
He can even try to do some political ju-jitsu and try to coopt the italian unification movement to create a ally/buffer on the south border (who BTW can give more access to the sealane)
He can even try to do some political ju-jitsu and try to coopt the italian unification movement to create a ally/buffer on the south border (who BTW can give more access to the sealane)
If we get a new emperor in 1848 it will probably be Franz Karl (father of FJ and Max who is only 16 in 1848)
Max Sinister
Banned
You have a point there... IOTL Sophie made him forfeit so Franz Joseph could become emperor instead, but here it may turn out different. Franz Karl died in 1878 - which means thirty years of waiting for my namesake.
Depends on the exact terms of FK's renunciation - did it reserve any eight of reversion in the event of FJ's death?
If not, I suppose they could still make him Regent until Max was of age, but am not sufficiently up on Habsburg Family Law to say whether tat is likely.
unprincipled peter
Donor
Herman G,
the examples you gave are all examples of stuff that almost automatically are eliminated if Max rules his home land. They're examples of what went wrong with his foreign rule. Does it make one think he'd be a brilliant leader on his home court? No. but you can't extrapolate that he'd be equally bad if not faced with cultural differences. It's like asking a swimming coach to coach a hockey team. They're both sports that involve water, but yet are completely different.
the examples you gave are all examples of stuff that almost automatically are eliminated if Max rules his home land. They're examples of what went wrong with his foreign rule. Does it make one think he'd be a brilliant leader on his home court? No. but you can't extrapolate that he'd be equally bad if not faced with cultural differences. It's like asking a swimming coach to coach a hockey team. They're both sports that involve water, but yet are completely different.