No continuation of the Western Roman Empire - HRE never arises

What would were the effects a lack of the Holy Roman Empire on the international arena ? For example, if the bishop of Rome was under total control of the Byzantine Empire as long as possible. Then a Frankish king rather not receive the title of Roman Emperor. What would happen in Western and Central Europe, in these circumstances ? Fragmentation of independent principalities, or more towards a larger, more uniform kingdoms ?
 
When did the Bishop of Rome have total control over the Byzantine Empire?

edit: nevermind, I read it wrong. I'm assuming this would have to butterfly away Charlemagne's conquests. I don't know too much about the Dark Ages, so I'll probably stay on the sidelines on this one.
 
The realm of the Franks is still subject to the same issues and succession laws as OTL.

So, while butterflies may change a lot of specifics, Charlemagne not being an Emperor doesn't really change things in regards to things breaking up or not.
 
Depends, Charlemagnes "Empire" isn't now an empire so the eastern half might break up into some sort of proto-Germany or then a unified "Netherlands." Probably Lothringia at least makes some sort of an appearance.
 
The Frankish 'Empire' will still be divided according to Frankish tradition. However with none of the successor kingdoms having to divert to much attention to Imperial ambitions, I can see TTL East Francia like OTL and TTL West Francia being relatively stable. Middle Francia OTOH still isn't that feasible or cohesive, however if divided further in Italy, Lotharingia and Burgundy those could be stable too.
 
The Frankish 'Empire' will still be divided according to Frankish tradition. However with none of the successor kingdoms having to divert to much attention to Imperial ambitions, I can see TTL East Francia like OTL and TTL West Francia being relatively stable. Middle Francia OTOH still isn't that feasible or cohesive, however if divided further in Italy, Lotharingia and Burgundy those could be stable too.

If East Francia still tries to claim the areas it did OTL, would it matter whether its kings are preoccupied enforcing their authority as kings of Italy or using the Emperor title?
 
If East Francia still tries to claim the areas it did OTL, would it matter whether its kings are preoccupied enforcing their authority as kings of Italy or using the Emperor title?

The opportunity for that basically arose during the reign of Otto the Great (10th century). Things ITTL might work out differently, West Francia could end up doing this ITTL.

OTOH if East Francia still would do that, then a title wouldn't really that much. Though maybe you might see another division sooner (so Italy and East Francia separating again).
 
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