No Congo Free State

There wouldn't be more Congoese. Exactly the same stuff happened, at the same death rates, in northern Angola and the French Congo. They just haven't got as much attention because they were smaller populations, so the absolute number of killed was less.
 
It'd likely be split 40/40/20 between Britain, France and Portugal.

Their's a chance Germany may get some as an extension of German East Africa as well.
 
There wouldn't be more Congoese. Exactly the same stuff happened, at the same death rates, in northern Angola and the French Congo. They just haven't got as much attention because they were smaller populations, so the absolute number of killed was less.

I doubt the French and Portuguese were employing literal slave labor and cutting off the hands of those that did'nt meet production quotas.
 
There wouldn't be more Congoese. Exactly the same stuff happened, at the same death rates, in northern Angola and the French Congo. They just haven't got as much attention because they were smaller populations, so the absolute number of killed was less.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof."

Saying that French and Portuguese rule would be vicious and brutal is understandable,but to claim it would be exactly the same with the same exact death toll is pushing it.
 
Future!Angola is likely to be more volatile (though not as much as the Congo is now IOTL) what with Cabinda* still administered as a separate colony by the Portuguese but considerably larger.
 
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof."

Saying that French and Portuguese rule would be vicious and brutal is understandable,but to claim it would be exactly the same with the same exact death toll is pushing it.

I don't need to speculate: it happened in this timeline. Read King Leopold's Ghost. The last chapters pointed out the exact same methods were used, with similar death tolls. Often the same private companies were used.
 
I don't need to speculate: it happened in this timeline. Read King Leopold's Ghost. The last chapters pointed out the exact same methods were used, with similar death tolls. Often the same private companies were used.

I was wondering if anyone else was going to bring up that book, great one. Shame my copy of it is a few hundred miles away else I'd bother to cite the figures in it.
 
Some quotes:

"If you draw boundaries differently--to surround, say, all African equatorial rain forest land rich in wild rubber--then what happened in the Congo is, unfortunately, no worse than what happened in neighbouring colonies: Leopold simply had far more of the rubber territory than anyone else. Within a decade of his head start, similar forced labor systems for extracting rubber were in place in the French territories west and north of the Congo River, in Portuguese-ruled Angola, and in the nearby Cameroons under the Germans..."

"...In France's equatorial African territories, where the region's history is best documented, the amount of rubber-bearing land was far less than what Leopold controlled, but the rape was just as brutal. Almost all exploitable land was divided among concession companies. Forced labor, hostages, slave chains, starving porters, burned villages, paramilitary company "sentries", and the chicotte were the order of the day. Thousands of refugees who had fled across the Congo River to escape Leopold's regime eventually fled back to escape the French. The population loss in the rubber-rich equatorial rain forest owned by France is estimated, just as in Leopold's Congo at roughtly 50%. And, as in Leopold's colony, both the French territories and the German Cameroons were wracked by the long, fierce rebellions against the rubber regime."

"The French scholar Catherine Coquery-Vidrovitch has published a chilling graph showing how, at one French Congo post, Salanga, between 1904 and 1907 the month-by-month rise and fall in rubber production correlated almost exactly to the rise and fall in the number of bullets used up by company "sentries"--nearly four hundred in a busy month."

"...During this period a scandal erupted in France when two white men were put on trial for a particularly gruesomse set of murders in the French Congo; to celebrate Bastille Day, one had exploded a stick of dynamite in a black prisoner's rectum..."

"...In the 1920s, construction of a new railway through French territory bypassing the Congo River rapids cost the lives of an estimated twenty thousand forced laborers, far more than had died building and later rebuilding Leopold's railway nearby."

It may assuage Western consciences to blame the horrific crimes of the Congo on a single man, but the reality was that, if it was profitable to do, European colonialism was willing to embrace slavery and mass murder across occupying powers. And this was not just from the rulers either: horrendous brutality came from soldiers, administrators and merchants on the ground also. It is the nature of a colonial system where one group of people have absolute power over another, and where they see them as racially inferior semi-beasts.

Joseph Conrad put it well: "All Europe contributed to the making of Kurtz".
 
I doubt the French and Portuguese were employing literal slave labor and cutting off the hands of those that did'nt meet production quotas.

For the record, the cutting off of hands wasn't done as a punishment. What occurred was that, while the colonial authorities did not care about wasting African lives, they were very tough on wasting resources. Thus every soldier would have to justify each bullet he used with a hand removed from the dead African he had just killed. If a soldier ever wasted a bullet, he would go and cut off a hand from a live African to "prove" he had killed a rebel, in order to avoid disciplinary proceedings.
 
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I'm not claiming French/Portugese/etc rulership over the Congo would be as bad as L II's, but it would follow the same route as happened in the neighboring areas as stated in the book.
 
Yeah, I don't think Portugal, Britain, France or Germany will get it, or are we forgetting the basic reasons it went to Belgium/Leopold in the first place? None of the other powers were willing to let the others have it - it was startegically important, economically viable (if used properly) and if one of these powers got it, it would mean the entire heart of Africa is in the hands of one power hostile to many others.

Even in partition, there would have to be some kind of big treaty to organise the territory accordingly - no doubt every power will see it as advantageous to their neighbour - which will only provoke tension and conflict. What they need is another neutral power, whose neutrality has been agreed upon by all the candidates involved. If Belgium exists it is the ideal state - if not, the Netherlands or a Scandinavian country if they were willing (the former probably moreso than the latter), otherwise even the USA is a better alternative and probably less extortionist than Leopold.

Even then though the Free State will probably still exist in a similar fashion to Liberia, but due to the sheer size of the territory involved, with a lot more US involvement in the early years.
 
Britain (or, more exactly, Cecil Rhodes) would seek to get Katanga at some point. France is certainly going to be interested in the northern parts, and I hardly see anyone objecting to it if Leopold does not stake a claim, as long as the French don't to try to mess up with the Nile (which they'll surely do in time, but probably later enough). Portugal is likely to be recognized a slice including the mouth of the river Congo and the left bank of the Kasai - but probably not Kabinda, that will be French instead.
Germany would probably come too late to get a significant share - if anything, Britain will get her all red route decades earlier connecting Katanga and Uganda through a corridor in the Upper Luluaba and Kivu regions.

There is nothing inherent in any other colonial domination that would prevent a Leopold-like situation - indeed, other parts of Africa saw equally senseless brutality, or even worse, in OTl, though usually not in a such extensive, continuated and systematic way. But I suppose that any other power would not be so desperate for profit; Congo was Leopold's (and, later on, Belgium's) only colony to extract profit from. Other powers will have other places to exploit. Brutality will still be the norm, but I reckon there is a fair chance that overall death toll could be somewhat lower.
 
France, Portugal and Britain split it. Portugal had the best claims and were initially backed by them until the Leopold PR machine kicked in. Leopold simply promised the french everything they were already being cut in on by the Portuguese. so their share probably won`t change. Britain will probably get into Katanga first and as a prid pro quo.. Portugal the rest.

this is most likely...but could we get it run by three power commission as a Co-Dominion, like the New Hebrides. instead. With economic interests of all parties having equal access over the entire terr.
 
this is most likely...but could we get it run by three power commission as a Co-Dominion, like the New Hebrides. instead. With economic interests of all parties having equal access over the entire terr.

I doubt it. France and Britain were colonial rivals, and the Congo is a big place, not like Vanuatu.

Edit: Also, Portugal and Britain are long-time lovers, which means in any event Portugal would likely try to work in Britain's best interest over the whole affair. It's an interesting thought nonetheless.
 
I doubt it. France and Britain were colonial rivals, and the Congo is a big place, not like Vanuatu.

Edit: Also, Portugal and Britain are long-time lovers, which means in any event Portugal would likely try to work in Britain's best interest over the whole affair. It's an interesting thought nonetheless.

your probably right about the Anglo French rivalry...but a Anglo- Portuguese co dominion would be doable. Special spheres of interest in say Katanga for Britain and north to the Kasai R. for Portugal. Brtish economic interests would dominate of course...and its likely that Cape to Cairo route does indeed get built over a generation or two maybe three. A Lusaka to Khartoum route via Eastern Congo, Kindu and Stanleyville, with an off shoot to Bukavu and Kampala giving access to Mombasa of course.
 
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