No Cisterna/Civittavecchia during Anzio campaign

So WI the 1st and 3rd Ranger Bns hadn't been decimated by superior German forces at Cisterna/Civvitavecchia during the Anzio campaign ? Out of 767 Rangers engaged, only 6 made it back to US lines, the remainer being killed or captured including 450-500 odd who were paraded thru the streets of Rome 9contrary to the Geneva Conventions). If the rangers hadn't been hit with such a massive disaster, how much more of an impact could such a highly trained specialised force had had during the liberation of Rome and other aspects of the Italian campaign ?
 
I really don't know how much it would of affected the rest of the Italian canpaign but after Rome* was captured/liberated was really any need to go much furture up the boot. My father was in the Fifth Army and I am sure he would not of minded a less extensive tour of the Italian countryside. Although he has a great story about towing 155mm Long Toms up the Devils Staircase**

*IMO Mark Clark gets a bad rap simply because he was in Italy. A thankless task with out the required resources to do the job properly. Plus on top of that Italy was probably the most defendable country in Europe

** He also has stories about getting mail a year late due to its having been sent to the Southwest Pacific Theater where the rest of his division served (32nd DIvision).
 

HJ Tulp

Donor
*IMO Mark Clark gets a bad rap simply because he was in Italy. A thankless task with out the required resources to do the job properly. Plus on top of that Italy was probably the most defendable country in Europe


Mark Clark gets a bad rap because instead of destroying the German army in Italy he went for the headlines by taking Rome.
 
So WI the 1st and 3rd Ranger Bns hadn't been decimated by superior German forces at Cisterna/Civvitavecchia during the Anzio campaign ?

Where they 'decimated by superior forces'? I've read that the whole thing was avoidable, and was the result of the Ranger COs losing their bottle.
 
Mate, I believe that the Rangers did run into the HERMANN GOERING Pz Div, which was why they were so severely mauled- cut off, surrounded with no armd support of their own. As for their COs, I believe Darby initially objected to the way that his Ranger force was gonna be used, and he shed buckets of tears over the loss of his 2 Ranger bns once he heard the news of the debacle.

Hmmm, but the thing is, if the Ranger bns hadn't been destroyed in that farce, how well could they have been used elsewhere as such elite, specialised troops ?
 
Mate, I believe that the Rangers did run into the HERMANN GOERING Pz Div, which was why they were so severely mauled- cut off, surrounded with no armd support of their own. As for their COs, I believe Darby initially objected to the way that his Ranger force was gonna be used, and he shed buckets of tears over the loss of his 2 Ranger bns once he heard the news of the debacle

Well, John Frost's 2nd Parachute Bn at Arnhem ran into superior Nazi armoured forces, and after their surrender they sure as shit weren't in any shape to be paraded through an enemy city.

That is decimated.
 
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