No carthage and its effects on the roman republic

So carthage and other punic colonies in africa had bad luck and were destroyed by the numidians. What influence would that have on the Roman republic?
 
They would not learn how to build an empire. Their little confederation in Italy was meant to fend of Greeks and Gauls. Maceondon or Egypt might end up being the prominent power in the Mediterranean (although not as dominant as OTL Rome)
 
They would not learn how to build an empire. Their little confederation in Italy was meant to fend of Greeks and Gauls. Maceondon or Egypt might end up being the prominent power in the Mediterranean (although not as dominant as OTL Rome)

Are you sure that Rome developed empire uniquely from Carthage? If so, this begs the question of from where Carthage learned such? Regardless, Carthage was no empire and did not learn from any particular entity.
 

PhilippeO

Banned
Syracuse might replace Carthage as dominant power and give Rome taste of Empire. i think primary effect is slower conquest oh Hispania and Western North Africa (assuming nobody succeed becoming hegemon in that area.)
 
Remember the Romans got fairly complacent until Hannibal came along.

I would think Pyrrhus should have been their warning. I read some sources on Heraculea and it seems the casualties against the Romans was probably 13K to the Epirot 4K unlike what Wikipedia claims. The Romans lost triple what the enemy lost and were forced off the field and only won the war because their losses were replaceable. If they suffered defections at the level they did in OTL Punic wars, Pyrrus could have forced them to an agreement on his terms.

Anyways, with no Carthage, the Romans just plod along as the dominant force in their confederation. What is beyond the sea or the Alps might come to Rome and might interest them, but no expeditions will be sent,.
 
They would not learn how to build an empire. Their little confederation in Italy was meant to fend of Greeks and Gauls. Maceondon or Egypt might end up being the prominent power in the Mediterranean (although not as dominant as OTL Rome)

Empire is the most fluid type of society, any government can do it - republican city states, monarchial dynastic states, theocracies, you name it. I doubt it would be much harder for the Romans in this timeline to figure out how to make it work for them.

A traditional marking point at which Rome became an empire is the creation of the first province, Sicily. I don’t see any reason why Rome couldn’t expand into Sicily in a Sans-Carthage TL, unless Sicily is tied to a larger Hellenistic state, but even that is not likely to be a long term matter. Anyway, once they do it once, they can copy the model elswhere, just like they historically did.

On the other hand, given a Sans-Carthage Sicily, its possible Sicilian society might be more amenable to being incorpoated as Socii. On the third hand, they might be taking the place of Carthage as the mercantile power in the region, which could make them less amenable to being incorporated as Socii.
 
I would not say that the ROmans learned the idea of empire from the Carthiginians. Carthaginians were certainly influential in strengthening Rome`s naval focus, though. Without the Punic networks, Rome`s only sources of naval inspiration would be Greek. (But who would take Carthage`s place? ...) That would make a significant difference, though what it exactly amounts to is almost impossible to tell without knowing who fills the no-Carthage void in terms of trade volume, naval hegemony, and converging cultural influence in the Western Mediterranean.
 
It isn't that Carthage "taught" Rome how to be an empire, rather it's that the conflict with Carthage drew Rome beyond the Italian peninsula and into Spain and Carthage. Though I'm sure without Carthage you could still find other ways of drawing Rome into those areas.

The Roman psyche might be rather different without the major scare of the Second Punic War.

Could Rome still be drawn into Illyria by issues of Adriatic piracy, and from there potentially into conflicts with Macedon/in Greece?
 
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