No Cars!

Runaway horses were responsible for many deaths and injuries, and that's not counting what you got from all that dried horse manure blowing into your houses and workplaces, let alone on your shoes.

I don't know if it is true or not but they say U.S. Grant once got busted for 'drunk driving' in the 1850s
 
Why do you need to forbid them? Ford Model T and its competitors fail, and individual motor vehicles never latch on afterwards?

Or make everyone extremely poor globally somehow.
 
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BTW, I read this piece in a dog-and-lemon guide some years back and have just found the PDF: Before the motor car

Given that, yeah, cars are coming, the most you can do is delay them a bit. Even the British Locomotive Acts couldn't stop them for long.

All seriousness: why do you need to forbid them? Ford Model T and its competitors fail, and individual motor vehicles never latch on afterwards?

Or make everyone extremely poor globally somehow.
The problem is, self-powered trucks and buses are miles better than horse-drawn wagons and coaches for maintenance and not filling the streets with manure. And once you have trucks and buses, you're eventually going to get cars.
 
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The problem is, self-powered trucks and buses are miles better than horse-drawn wagons and coaches for maintenance and not filling the streets with manure. And once you have trucks and buses, you're eventually going to get cars.
Exactly, this is why it's so hard for me to think about how to do this. It's an interesting idea, but I haven't really got anything unfortunately.
 
WI at the turn of the 19th-20th Century the United States of America had had the good sense to forbade the production of the automobile and forced Americans to be dependent on mass transportation. How different today would America be/function?

What would be missing; what would be gained?
or what about No Springs? how would that work out.
 
or what about No Springs? how would that work out.

I don't know if you are teasing or not, but I think the problem with no springs is that we probably don't realize how often with encounter them in our daily life. They are profoundly important and likely touch us in various ways everyday, but we are often unaware when it happens.

Of course the other obvious one is 'no wheel' but we know how that worked out.
 
I don't think goalieboy82 was talking about *all* springs, just those for vehicles.

I figured but springs have been used in guns for centuries by the time cars have been invented. So why wouldn't someone think to transfer it from any of the other myriad devices that use springs to cars. I mean springs have been around since almost the beginning of civilization.
 
I figured but springs have been used in guns for centuries by the time cars have been invented. So why wouldn't someone think to transfer it from any of the other myriad devices that use springs to cars. I mean springs have been around since almost the beginning of civilization.
I honestly don't know why he suggested it to be quite honest.
 
Question: if one manages to ban the car, does that mean they ban tractors as well? Or, if someone invents the mechanized tractor, then it's not exactly long until a faster version for transportation arrives.

Heck, even if we were stuck at steam, there were plenty of steam powered automobiles in the early 20th century. And there were a fair few electric vehicles as well. There are plenty of different forms of mechanized locomotion.

I'm sure there would be ways to stymie the spread of the automobile, but I don't see any good way to actually prevent them from becoming even barely as commonplace as they are. What provides the flexibility, the hauling capability, and the speed of the automobile that is available when the user needs it, not when the schedule says it's time?

diminished disposable income (purchase & insurance)

Erm, a horse and buggy are much more bothersome and time-consuming to maintain vs an automobile, have less chances of breaking down, and need to be replaced less frequently. And, in relation to bicycles, automobiles are major time savers, as they allow the driver to reach their destination far more quickly, allowing them to minimize downtime in transit (not to mention not having to physically exert themselves over long trips via bicycle). It also allows the user to minimize housing costs - by forcing residents to remain closer and depend on public transport even more than before, housing prices probably would rise. With an automobile, someone can actually have a larger home, and get more for their money's worth there, vs having to spend more money for less space (but in return getting a shorter commute not requiring a bicycle).

I figured but springs have been used in guns for centuries by the time cars have been invented. So why wouldn't someone think to transfer it from any of the other myriad devices that use springs to cars. I mean springs have been around since almost the beginning of civilization.

Especially as rail cars and buses and similar will also have springs and dampeners on them as well, so it'd be curious why there'd be none on personal transportation besides an odd ban.
 
The easiest method I can think of to eliminate nearly all cars would be a geology ASB: NO fossil fuels at all; given the technology of the time this would limit cars to electric - and thus to short 20-30 mile ranges with lead-acid batteries until more advanced ones are developed. But this would not just butterfly the existence of 99+% of automobiles, but also have massive technological ramifications stretching back over a century beforehand, including ruinous environmental changes. Chopping down forests to provide charcoal to forge steel or power the fewer steam engines that exist, or mass extinctions of whales due to the continued use of whale oil, that sort of thing. Not to mention, a lot fewer synthetic materials such as synthetic rubber for tires (which would hurt the adoption of electric cars further) or many kinds of plastics, or even the lack of coal-tar dyes. Generating electricity would be possible but more difficult and adoption would likely be slowed, and heavily dependent upon proximity to rivers and thus hydroelectric power.

Not to mention, history from about the 18th century onward would be almost completely different, if not even from earlier.
 
Runaway horses were responsible for many deaths and injuries, ...

I recall a story from my grandfathers pre auto days. On Saturday nights he & his brothers were inclined to take a horse and buggy from their farm near Otterbein Indiana (population at the time of 700) and travel 14 miles to the big city of Lafayette (pop. 20,000). That was about fourteen miles on graveled & dirt roads. After a evening of libations and mayhem in the bars they'd return. According to the story the horses they used knew the route and got the lot of them home even when they were all asleep. The youngest of them, Eli, described awakening in a strange farm yard one night as the horse backed away from a water trough & returned to the road.

So now, 130 years later we are close to having cars as smart as horses.
 
I recall a story from my grandfathers pre auto days. On Saturday nights he & his brothers were inclined to take a horse and buggy from their farm near Otterbein Indiana (population at the time of 700) and travel 14 miles to the big city of Lafayette (pop. 20,000). That was about fourteen miles on graveled & dirt roads. After a evening of libations and mayhem in the bars they'd return. According to the story the horses they used knew the route and got the lot of them home even when they were all asleep. The youngest of them, Eli, described awakening in a strange farm yard one night as the horse backed away from a water trough & returned to the road.

So now, 130 years later we are close to having cars as smart as horses.
One of the very few advantages of the horse.
 
Mm, I'm more inclined to think that the horses just got so used to the route they could do it on their own. Horses aren't dumb animals, they can learn.
 

DougM

Donor
My uncle born in 1924 had a plate in his skull from getting kicked by a delivery horse and they lived in Detroit proper. So in the 30s horses still were working in the Motor City.

As for smart horses or training. On Machinac island they use teams of horses to pull buggies and wagons when in the field these horse tend to walk side by side anyway.

And I have read a few historical articles that pointed out how much manur horses left in the roads of cities. It was big business getting rid of it from New York. And the smells was supposed to be something else.

So with all the benefits of the car/truck/bus/tractor the only way to prevent it (short of ASB changes) is to outlaw them and that is a short fix as the people WILL replace the government that outlawed them with one that won’t. Unless you propthat the whole world outlaws then and then we are back to ASB as the whole world can’t agree on anything.

So the best you can do is delay it a few years
 
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