No Battleship holiday

If there had been no Battleship holiday and replacement of older Battleships could begin 1931 though with the limits remaining as is, what effect would that have on the various fleets?
 
If there had been no Battleship holiday and replacement of older Battleships could begin 1931 though with the limits remaining as is, what effect would that have on the various fleets?
Historically a lot the British capacity in terms of gun pits armour construction etc closed in 1929-1930. If building starts in 1931 many could stay open increasing capacity and decreasing shipyard costs in the UK.
 

SsgtC

Banned
Not sure about the rest of the world, but in the US, you'd see all the Colorados completed. The New York, Nevada and Pennsylvania classes are likely replaced by the mid to late 30s with 25-27 knot 16" gunned battleships. Possibly even with 18" gunned ships by that point if there are no treaties limiting gun caliber. The remaining 12" gunned ships are likely completely replaced by the late 20s with 16" gunned ships of either the Colorado-class or a follow on class, with either a 23 or 25 knot top speed. The two NY class ships likely take over training duties.

The Lexington-class battlecruisers are likely get cancelled as IOTL. Particularly when the US finds out the design of the UK's G-3 class. A true fast battleship is probably laid down in their place. Something similar to the OTL North Carolina class would be my guess. The Lexington hulls, IMO, would all be converted to aircraft carriers ITTL. Their high speed and large size made them ideal for this. This likely has the knock on of advancing carrier aviation while simultaneously slowing development of the next generation of purpose built carriers.

By the time the late 30s, early 40s roll around, the US fleet would look very different. The 14" gunned ships are either retired, in reserve our relegated to secondary duties. All front line US Battleships would have 16" or larger guns. A higher top speed is very probable as well. The minimum would be the Colorado's 23 knots with all newer ships being 25-27 knots. Possibly up to the Iowa's 33 knots for the very latest classes.
 
Not sure about the rest of the world, but in the US, you'd see all the Colorados completed. The New York, Nevada and Pennsylvania classes are likely replaced by the mid to late 30s with 25-27 knot 16" gunned battleships. Possibly even with 18" gunned ships by that point if there are no treaties limiting gun caliber. T.

Limits remain as is, the only change is building is allowed.
 

SsgtC

Banned
Limits remain as is, the only change is building is allowed.
Which limits? Just gun caliber? Or tonnage too? Cause if it's just gun caliber, all the SoDaks get built as well.

What about limits on when ships can be replaced? Are those out the window or are nations only permitted to replace ships past a certain age?
 
If there had been no Battleship holiday and replacement of older Battleships could begin 1931 though with the limits remaining as is, what effect would that have on the various fleets?

Which limits? Just gun caliber? Or tonnage too? Cause if it's just gun caliber, all the SoDaks get built as well.

What about limits on when ships can be replaced? Are those out the window or are nations only permitted to replace ships past a certain age?
Is the OP not talking about the WNT build scheduled from 31 so the old ships are already long gone and the limit is 16"/35,000t?

The world big three fleets would be on Jan 1 1937 when the treaty ended, (all letter ships are 16"/35,000t or under) http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-089_Washington_Naval_Limitation_Treaty_1922.htm

RN - C,D,E,F and G, with N&R (ships A+B), Hood, R&R, 5QE(or Rs depending on choice) for 15 ships with H,I,J,K,L building and potentially 2 Rs in the process of being scraped or to training ships?

USN - C,D,E,F and G, with 3x Colorado, 2xT, 3xNM, 2xP for 15 ships with H,I,J,K,L building and potentially 2x Navada in the process of being scraped or to training ships?

IJN - A,B and C with N&M, I&H and F&Y for 9 ships with D, E & F building (potentially overweight) and some of the Kongos as training ships to avoid scraping or swapped with the 14" BBs

This basically really helps the RN the most as it will massively over match the European threat early on in WWII.

From 1st Jan 37 they would all build more and faster than OTL due to more industry available from building the 10/10/6 new ships.
 
Last edited:

SsgtC

Banned
Is the OP not talking about the WNT build scheduled from 31 so the old ships are already long gone and the limit is 16"/35,000t?

The world big three fleets would be on Jan 1 1937 when the treaty ended, (all letter ships are 16"/35,000t or under) http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-089_Washington_Naval_Limitation_Treaty_1922.htm

RN - C,D,E,F and G, with N&R (ships A+B), Hood, R&R, 5QE(or Rs depending on choice) for 15 ships with H,I,J,K,L building and potentially 2 Rs in the process of being scraped or to training ships?

USN - C,D,E,F and G, with 3x Colorado, 2xT, 3xNM, 2xP for 15 ships with H,I,J,K,L building and potentially 2x Navada in the process of being scraped or to training ships?

IJN - A,B and C with N&M, I&H and F&Y for 9 ships with D, E & F building (potentially overweight) and some of the Kongos as training ships to avoid scraping or swapped with the 14" BBs

This basically really helps the RN the most as it will massively over match the European threat early on in WWII.

From 1st Jan 37 they would all build more and faster than OTL due to more industry available from building the 10/10/6 new ships.

I assumed with no building holiday, the Colorado and SoDak classes are built as planned. With the older ships replaced as they aged out in the 20s and 30s. If there is still a building a holiday but it ends in 31 as was planned until the LNT extended it to 37, then things are very much different.
 
What would the RN's new build look like, in 'Nelson to Vanguard' Brown mentions 16A - four twin 16", two forward and two aft with a speed of 23kts.

It looks like separate 6" and 4.7" secondaries, 6? bow 21" torpedo tubes with no mention of aircraft.
 
What would the RN's new build look like, in 'Nelson to Vanguard' Brown mentions 16A - four twin 16", two forward and two aft with a speed of 23kts.

It looks like separate 6" and 4.7" secondaries, 6? bow 21" torpedo tubes with no mention of aircraft.
Good question depends on what part of the RN wins the argument and what others do, they will not be copies of N&R but apart from that anything could be done?

Hopefully not not all 10 ships laid down pre 1st JAN 1937 would be 23Kn ships..... and they are also looking at DP guns like the 5.1"/50 (13 cm) QF Mark I of 1931.
 

SsgtC

Banned
Hopefully not not all 10 ships laid down pre 1st JAN 1937 would be 23Kn ships.....
Somehow I doubt that. I think we're more likely to see 25-27 knots. Possibly more as the RN did seem to favor speed and firepower over armor.
 
Top