No Battle of Jutland?

The Battle of Jutland was the largest naval battle of WW1, that pitted the German High Seas Fleet against the British Royal Navy. Years of naval build up between the two powers clashed in one battle. The Battle was caused by Admiral Scheer's belief that one large cataclysmic battle between the German and British Navies could end the British blockade of Germany after the temporary end of unrestriced submarine warfare. While the Germans could be viewed as having technically "winning" the battle by destroying more ships than the British, they strategically lost by receiving heavy damage to their navy that led to it being stationed in Wilhelmshaven untill the end of the war, seeing no more action. Admiral Scheer, after the battle in his assessment to Kaiser Wilhelm II strongly urged returning unrestricted submarine warfare, viewing it as the only way to ease the blockade and Atlantic shipping. As we all know, a U-Boat sunk the Lusitania, resulting in US entry into the war. What if Admiral Scheer decided against fighting the battle, not resulting his recommendation of unrestricted sub warfare?
 

SsgtC

Banned
The Battle was caused by Admiral Scheer's belief that one large cataclysmic battle between the German and British Navies could end the British blockade of Germany after the temporary end of unrestriced submarine warfare.

As we all know, a U-Boat sunk the Lusitania, resulting in US entry into the war.
These two statements aren't quite true. The Battle of Jutland was caused when Scheer attempted to engage a portion of the Grand Fleet (ideally no more than one Battle Squadron) with his entire fleet. The goal was to reduce British numerical superiority so that when the final clash did come, it would be fought on no worse than even odds. So while that may have been his grand strategy, that wasn't what he was trying to do this time. In fact, he had issued orders that if it was discovered that the entire Grand Fleet had sailed, the HSF was to return to port immediately to preserve the fleet as a Fleet-in-Being

As to your point about Lusitania, she was sunk before Germany suspended USW. It was not resumed until 1917. And while her sinking certainly contributed to the United States DoW, it was not the determining factor. What finally brought the US into the war was the resumption of Unrestricted Submarine Warfare in 1917
 
These two statements aren't quite true. The Battle of Jutland was caused when Scheer attempted to engage a portion of the Grand Fleet (ideally no more than one Battle Squadron) with his entire fleet. The goal was to reduce British numerical superiority so that when the final clash did come, it would be fought on no worse than even odds. So while that may have been his grand strategy, that wasn't what he was trying to do this time. In fact, he had issued orders that if it was discovered that the entire Grand Fleet had sailed, the HSF was to return to port immediately to preserve the fleet as a Fleet-in-Being

As to your point about Lusitania, she was sunk before Germany suspended USW. It was not resumed until 1917. And while her sinking certainly contributed to the United States DoW, it was not the determining factor. What finally brought the US into the war was the resumption of Unrestricted Submarine Warfare in 1917
Oof. Did some R/badhistory. Still tho the battle influenced the US to join the war as a result of the German Navy being incapacitated and Scheer himself saying to the Kaiser that subs were the way to go.
 
USW is the only way to knock Britain out of the war - without it then the British are importing enough resources to feed their growing and improving armament industry while at the same time Germany is still under blockade
 

Riain

Banned
The road to Jutland is a bumpy one and revolves around the 'sharpened' u boat campaign which began on 4 March 1916 and after the attack on the cross channel ferry SS Sussex on 24 March which lead to weeks of heated diplomatic exchange with the US. On 20 the restrictions which had been removed on 4 March were put back on the u boats, leading to Scheer recalling them due to the unfavorable tactical situation facing them, and some 4 days later reverting to the older tactic of bombarding the English coast to try to cut off and destroy part of the Grand Fleet.

Jutland was a attempt to do a similar thing by means of a sweep northwards, and as we know wasn't successful as hoped, although if the Germans had sunk a couple more (maybe smaller) ships and lost one less themselves it would be hard not to declare it a tactical victory and some way to reaching the German goal of writing down the British fleet.

After Jutland, which repairs being conducted, the 2nd destroyer flotilla was sent to Flanders, temporarily boosting destroyer numbers there to 13 and a capital ship sortie was undertaken on August 19. Finally in October 1916 the MarineKorps Flandern was reinforced by 2 destroyer flotilla, bringing numbers to 23 destroyers, and won the small Battle of Dover Strait on 23-24 October and over the next 6 or more months bought this region to a naval stalemate that the British broke by throwing resources at it in early 1917.

Only then was unrestricted u boat warfare begun.
 

SsgtC

Banned
Oof. Did some R/badhistory. Still tho the battle influenced the US to join the war as a result of the German Navy being incapacitated and Scheer himself saying to the Kaiser that subs were the way to go.
What's ironic is, by restarting USW, the German's signed they're own death warrant. If they had continued to observe Cruiser Rules (not really practical, I agree, but stay with me here) they probably could have secured a negotiated peace sometime in Early to Mid 1918. At that point, everyone was nearing exhaustion. It was only the infusion of masses of fresh manpower from the US that allowed the Entente to begin actually pushing back against the Central Powers. Without that infusion, it's likely that a negotiated settlement to the war occurs. Yes, the Germans would still "lose" the war, but they wouldn't be gutted the way they were in OTL.
 
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