No ARW: What would happen to the Dutch Patriot movement?

IOTL, the American Revolution inspired the formation of the Dutch Patriots, who pushed to weaken the Stadtholder. Without the ARW, would they be a smaller movement? Would they cease to exist entirely?
 

Dageraad

Donor
All things aside being equal, sooner or later the French revolution was bound to happen, with or without the American revolution
 
Would there be a Patriot Revolt? It was triggered in part by the Dutch collapse during the Revolution and the dispute over how the Netherlands should act during the war.
 
Would there be a Patriot Revolt? It was triggered in part by the Dutch collapse during the Revolution and the dispute over how the Netherlands should act during the war.

Apparently there was social tension between the Estates party and the Orangist party going back to the 1750s. However, from what I have read, the Estates party only started thinking of themselves as "patriots" representing the entire nation from the ARW. So it might be more of a classic bourgeoisie vs monarchy struggle.
 
Would there be a Patriot Revolt? It was triggered in part by the Dutch collapse during the Revolution and the dispute over how the Netherlands should act during the war.
Something like the patriot movement was basicly unavoidable. The late Dutch republic was so incredibly corrupt a reaction would happen (and in fact has happened a couple of times before the patriot movement). Combined with the continuus struggle in the Dutch republic between supporters and opponents of the Stadholders something like the patriots was more or less unavoidable. The American revolution was an inspiration not a cause of the patriot movement. I am certain that without it something else would inspire it (or it could even occur without the inspiration). Sure it would be different, maybe less effective (or even more effective), but something like it would happen in my opinion.
 
All things aside being equal, sooner or later the French revolution was bound to happen, with or without the American revolution

Why?
AFAIK, France's heavy involvement in the ARW took an equally heavy toll on France's coffers. And since cutting down on the luxury for the Court and the nobility wasn't going to happen, the ARW definitely contributed to the emergence of the French revolution, in so far as the economic side goes.
Also, let's not discount the psychological effect that the ARW had, in that it showed the world that it WAS possible to rise up against the opression that had been the status quo of France for centuries.
 
Something like the patriot movement was basicly unavoidable. The late Dutch republic was so incredibly corrupt a reaction would happen (and in fact has happened a couple of times before the patriot movement). Combined with the continuus struggle in the Dutch republic between supporters and opponents of the Stadholders something like the patriots was more or less unavoidable. The American revolution was an inspiration not a cause of the patriot movement. I am certain that without it something else would inspire it (or it could even occur without the inspiration). Sure it would be different, maybe less effective (or even more effective), but something like it would happen in my opinion.

Interesting lecture here:

http://www.nias.knaw.nl/Content/NIAS/Publicaties/KB Lectures/KB Lecture 4.pdf

Says that the Enlightenment in the Netherlands mainly stuck to non-political issues. They also say there were five innovative new strands of political thinking in the late 1770s:

1) the elevation of the ‘people’ as the primary source of legitimacy in politics
2) redefinition of the idea of ‘freedom’ to mean not freedom under specific historical privileges, but the inalienable freedom of everyone on an equal basis
3) doctrine that Catholics and Protestants (including the Mennonites) were equal in their civil status
4) discourse that aristocracy was a danger to freedom
5) universal rights to freedom of thought, of speech and of the press
 

Thande

Donor
The way I handled it in my TL was for the basic impulses behind the movement to still be there, but to be rather muted without the Fourth Anglo-Dutch War, and so the Patriot revolt is both delayed and weaker than OTL, and is fairly easily put down by the Dutch with the help of their then-allies in the Wittelsbach-ruled independent Duchy of Flanders (my TL also had the Austrians succeed in getting their way over the Bavarian succession).
 
Why?
AFAIK, France's heavy involvement in the ARW took an equally heavy toll on France's coffers. And since cutting down on the luxury for the Court and the nobility wasn't going to happen, the ARW definitely contributed to the emergence of the French revolution, in so far as the economic side goes.

Also, let's not discount the psychological effect that the ARW had, in that it showed the world that it WAS possible to rise up against the opression that had been the status quo of France for centuries.

In terms of the financial side, there was bound to be another French-British war at some point, and France simply couldn't afford it.

I agree with you on the psychological effect, but France was also awash with philosophe thinking. However, the philosophes always focused on change through instutions rather than through threat of force. I imagine without the American Revolution, it is also unlikely that the lower classes would have been as politically active. It was the fear of both of these that led to the powers that be granting double representation for the Third Estate. That has profound impacts in terms of the Third Estate not having numerical superiority: they couldn't for example, benefit through meeting as one chamber.
 
The late Dutch republic was so incredibly corrupt a reaction would happen

Thinking about this again, I'm not so sure. I think the problem is that we have read so much about the corruptness of governments where there was a revolt (the Dutch, the French etc). But isn't the truth of the matter that virtually every government of the era was hopeless corrupt, yet most managed to stumble through? It's just the places where there was a reaction to the corruption get flagged up in history, while we don't particularly read about the corruption in Naples, or in the Habsburg empire, for example.
 
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