No Armenian genocide

Hi! What would the ramifications be if the Armenian genocide doesn't happen? Would the Holocaust still take place, among other things?
 
I don't see how this prevents the holocaust. Germany still loses. t The Treaty of Versailles and the depression still inspire Hitler's rise to power.
 
I don't see how this prevents the holocaust. Germany still loses. t The Treaty of Versailles and the depression still inspire Hitler's rise to power.

But wasn't one of the argument Hitler had that the Final Solution could be pulled off was "no one remembers the Armenians", the premise being they could get away with it?
 

MSZ

Banned
But wasn't one of the argument Hitler had that the Final Solution could be pulled off was "no one remembers the Armenians", the premise being they could get away with it?

It was only said in passing. It wasn't an "argument". Besides, thers is still the precedent of the Native Americans...
 
Well Assyrians and Pontic Greeks would certainly be stronger minorities today...

Honestly without the mass transfers of the Armenian populace I can see the Ottomans or the Turks later having to deal with massive insurgencies in areas with a majority or sizeable minority of their population Armenian, while I do not at all condone what was done, it is very likely that no attempt to check the capabilities of the Armenian populace will result in revolt.
 
More Ottoman Muslims end up dying if they don't do absolutely anything to quell the fifth column in the Armenian community.
 
But wasn't one of the argument Hitler had that the Final Solution could be pulled off was "no one remembers the Armenians", the premise being they could get away with it?

Um, no actually. Hitler's primary "argument" was that "We have guns, they don't, so machine gun them in the back. If you object, this is war, not the Salvation army and I'm bribing you so STFU already."
 
Interesting idea. Hitler actually saw the Turks as getting away with the genocide as proof that he could pull this with the Jews and also get away with it.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
Hi! What would the ramifications be if the Armenian genocide doesn't happen? Would the Holocaust still take place, among other things?
1) same as OTL since the very term "Armenian genocide" is a tragic misnomer. If you mean, "What if the Turks hadn't ethnically cleansed the Armenians," these butterflies are likely to be very localized and not powerful enough to seriously affect intra-German political issues.

2) Yes, the Holocaust would still take place.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
Interesting idea. Hitler actually saw the Turks as getting away with the genocide as proof that he could pull this with the Jews and also get away with it.
I think that's more just a famous quote that people have picked up on. Hitler used European practices in Africa and American actions on the Frontier as his template, not so much the Turks and their gigantic cluster-fuck.
 
Interesting idea. Hitler actually saw the Turks as getting away with the genocide as proof that he could pull this with the Jews and also get away with it.

Erm, Hitler didn't need that as an encouragement. Hitler's idea that he could get away with it was based on the much simpler premise that Germans were supermen able to conquer the world and *this* would let him get away with it. Hitler didn't need any Armenian precursor to think Germans could get away with genocide, for that matter. There's the whole Herero thing and well, Herman Goering's father had gotten away with a genocide of Black Africans......
 
I think that's more just a famous quote that people have picked up on. Hitler used European practices in Africa and American actions on the Frontier as his template, not so much the Turks and their gigantic cluster-fuck.

Case in point Heinrich Goering and the Herero Genocide.......
 
The events in eastern Anatolia are difficult to avoid once WWI is underway.


1) The Russian invade the Ottoman Empire from the east.

2) The Russian advance sets off a major Armenian uprising complete with large scale killings of Turks and Kurds in the area.

3) The Turkish counter-offensive forces the Russians to retreat and, able to guess the likely response to the missing Turkish and Kurdish population, the Armenian population flees with the Russians.

4) You now have several hundred thousand Armenian refugees in an area which saw @200,000 Russian soldiers die due to lack of basic supplies over the next few months. The prospects for these Armenians surviving is not good...
 
The events in eastern Anatolia are difficult to avoid once WWI is underway.


1) The Russian invade the Ottoman Empire from the east.

2) The Russian advance sets off a major Armenian uprising complete with large scale killings of Turks and Kurds in the area.

3) The Turkish counter-offensive forces the Russians to retreat and, able to guess the likely response to the missing Turkish and Kurdish population, the Armenian population flees with the Russians.

4) You now have several hundred thousand Armenian refugees in an area which saw @200,000 Russian soldiers die due to lack of basic supplies over the next few months. The prospects for these Armenians surviving is not good...

I am almost certain this is just like how it happened OTL except with more Armenians dying in Russia, the deathtoll in the caucuses was almost as high as the deathtoll in the actual ethnic cleansing.
 
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