No An Lushan: How Long Does the Tang Dynasty Last?

Assume that there is not An Lushan rebellion, or comparable rebellion around the same time. The Tang Dynasty, meanwhile, has a broadly similar list of Emperors to our history after the rebellion: a complete mix of a few quite competant, a few horrible, and plenty of mediocre, all with a dash of the usual 'This Emperor went nuts and died early, all due to his immortality elixir.'

How long does the Dynasty last before it collapses?
 
Probably around the same time but for entirely different reasons.It's worthwhile to note that what ultimately dealt the deathblow to the Tang Dynasty was a peasant rebellion just like the Han Dynasty.
 
They will not last much longer if you do not get rid of the jiedushi. Giving regional military governors that much power is asking for a rebellion. I also remember something about natural disasters shortly before the fall of the Tang. (Floods in 858 and famine in 873?) Natural disasters are BAD. :p If this does not outright destroy the state, repeated disasters could leave it very weak.
 

PhilippeO

Banned
Yeah, the problem is jiedushi. even with no AnLuShan sooner or later a powerful jiedushi will rebel, it might even Tang faster. An failure is contributing to weakening of jiedushi, its eventually until Hang Chao who pull large enough army to wreak havoc. i think very large rebellion is at most delayed several decades. Tang max have 2015 - 300 years before eventually succumb to one general or others.
 
Yeah, the problem is jiedushi. even with no AnLuShan sooner or later a powerful jiedushi will rebel, it might even Tang faster. An failure is contributing to weakening of jiedushi, its eventually until Hang Chao who pull large enough army to wreak havoc. i think very large rebellion is at most delayed several decades. Tang max have 2015 - 300 years before eventually succumb to one general or others.
Actually,right before Huang Chao's rebellion,the power of the Jiedushis was greatly curbed down between the reigns of Emperor Xianzong and Emperor Li Yi/Chen(I won't refer to his temple name since it would be a bit confusing for people) and that there was actually a period of resurgence.Then came Li Yi/Chen's incompetent son(Yizong) whose reign was what finally broke the Tang Dynasty permanently and caused the Huang Chao rebellion.
 
Actually,right before Huang Chao's rebellion,the power of the Jiedushis was greatly curbed down between the reigns of Emperor Xianzong and Emperor Li Yi/Chen(I won't refer to his temple name since it would be a bit confusing for people) and that there was actually a period of resurgence.Then came Li Yi/Chen's incompetent son(Yizong) whose reign was what finally broke the Tang Dynasty permanently and caused the Huang Chao rebellion.

Silly identical names...
 
Last edited:

PhilippeO

Banned
An failure is contributing to weakening of jiedushi, its eventually until Hang Chao who pull large enough army to wreak havoc.

Actually,right before Huang Chao's rebellion,the power of the Jiedushis was greatly curbed down between the reigns of Emperor Xianzong and Emperor Li Yi/Chen(I won't refer to his temple name since it would be a bit confusing for people) and that there was actually a period of resurgence.Then came Li Yi/Chen's incompetent son(Yizong) whose reign was what finally broke the Tang Dynasty permanently and caused the Huang Chao rebellion.

When they are competent Emperor, jiedushi power is reduced. But sooner or later incompetent Emperor will come who gave successful/favorite/convincing one of jiedushi too much power, and cause rebellion/civil war/dynastic overthrow.
 
Actually,right before Huang Chao's rebellion,the power of the Jiedushis was greatly curbed down between the reigns of Emperor Xianzong and Emperor Li Yi/Chen(I won't refer to his temple name since it would be a bit confusing for people) and that there was actually a period of resurgence.Then came Li Yi/Chen's incompetent son(Yizong) whose reign was what finally broke the Tang Dynasty permanently and caused the Huang Chao rebellion.
So in other words, the slightly leaky rowboat could have a bandage put on the hole if Yizong either dies, or gets replaced. Following this, what would be the best method to ensure the survival of the Tang?
 
When they are competent Emperor, jiedushi power is reduced. But sooner or later incompetent Emperor will come who gave successful/favorite/convincing one of jiedushi too much power, and cause rebellion/civil war/dynastic overthrow.
So in other words, the slightly leaky rowboat could have a bandage put on the hole if Yizong either dies, or gets replaced. Following this, what would be the best method to ensure the survival of the Tang?
There were other factors at play as well.Far more than the jiedushis was the power of the Eunuchs.If you think the Ming Dynasty was corrupt because of the Eunuchs,the Tang Dynasty took it to the next level.The eunuchs were more or less the most powerful faction at court after the Anshi rebellion.They have couped off emperors,put them under house arrest,forged edicts or out right killed them.This is because most of the central government's forces were under the command of the eunuchs.Yizong most likely wouldn't have succeeded to the throne if the eunuchs didn't forge an edict legalizing his claim.In addition,the eunuchs were hugely corrupt and did much to hinder the efficiency of the government in curbing the jiedushis and were in fact an excuse the jiedushis often used to legalize their rebellion---stating they are fighting the central government to get rid of the eunuchs on the emperor's behalf,which is the excuse that Zhu Wen used to destroy the Tang government and usurp the throne.
 
Top