No AK-47

justiyt

jsb said:
Wasn't the FAL supposed to use 7mm and be a assault rife but NATO(US) standardisation(stupidity) stopped that ? :p

And no I think the USSR would not have used it they would just use the next best design in there completion. (or a MP44 but that's to German !)

JSB
Click to expand...

What's so bad about standardization?
 

NothingNow

Banned
justiyt said:
What's so bad about standardization?
Click to expand...

Nothing when it's done properly. The Problem with NATO standards is that it's generally the US deciding the standards, and then usually doing so poorly.
Like the only serious exceptions were the use of the Royal Ordnance L7 and Rheinmetall 120 mm guns in Tanks.
EDIT: Even then, those didn't exactly happen officially, but were driven by the foreign equipment being that good, and then NATO just sort of all bought the same tanks, with the exception of Italy and the UK.
 
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Simon

Simon

justiyt said:
What's so bad about standardization?
Click to expand...
IIRC when the debate over what calibre round to standardise was going on the US Army had done a series of tests and a report stating that the other options were either equal or superior. Some senior people in the Pentagon apparently didn't like that result, the cult of the large bullet lived on, so the report was quietly buried whilst they argued for and successfully got the 7.62×51mm chosen as the new NATO standard round.
 

jczak97

Well, America would still go on to create the M14, then later the M16. But as for the Russians, I would expect for them to expand upon the SUV and SKS. The Germans during the war, they still made the STG 44/MP 44, so someone might have made an improvement on that. I would expect more people to buy what ever would be cheapest at the time, making that the most recognized rifle.
 

Crowbar Six

The .280 cartridge was originally designed by the UK for their replacement for the Lee Enfield rifle. The UK carried out an extensive study of engagements after WW2m they concluded that the most engagements occurred at ranges of less than 800 yards with the majority taking place from 25 to 500 yards. The cartridge was optimised for these ranges and was also considered suitable for machine guns out to 1000 yards.

The UK designed a number of weapons in both .270 and .280 calibre these receiving the designations EM1 to EM4 although only the EM 1 and EM 2 reached trials. The two designs were bull pups and looked very similar but operated on very different principles. The EM2 was actually selected and was adopted by the British Army as Rifle No 9 Mk1. However the US wanted something more like the the .30 06 round which is essentially what the 7.62x51 is (just shorter to take advantage of more modern propellants), the excellent Rifle No 9 Mk1 could not be easily adapted to use the heavier round. The US didn't like the idea of "small" bullets and threw their toys out of the pram and held their breath until they turned blue to get their way; Ironically they then went and selected a hot .22 and the M16 as the M14 in 7.62 was too much to handle in full auto...and it was too heavy to schlep through the jungle although the Autralians didn't seem to mind.

The FN FAL was originally designed for .280 and submitted to the US for trials to replace the Garand, however it was able to be modified for 7.62. That didn't stop FN selling Venezuela the FN FAL in 7mm (technically called second optimum as the case was slightly longer than the original .280) though they all got converted to 7.62 NATO later on.
 

Ingsoc75

As mentioned above, one of the others in 'Stalin's contest' to build an assault rifle using the 7.62x39 round would of won and followed the same path that the AK47/AKM did.

As mentioned in The Gun, it was the command economy of the Soviet Union and it's allies that made Kalashnikov rifle as we know today.

A little trivia:

-The original Type 1 AK47 was made of thick sheet metal, while the Type 2 and Type 3 receivers were milled

-The AKM has stamped receiver (similar to the Type 1)

-The capital of Nebraska is Lincoln
 
Michel Van

Michel Van

FN Herstal had build in 1950 something similar for 7.62 caliber two FAL prototype for.280 British caliber (7.2 mm)
They experimented also with 7.92x33Kurz ammo of STG44,
but in 1957 USA forced NATO-Standard 2310 with caliber 7.62×51mm NATO.

One classical
280fal3.jpg


Bullpup version
FAL-bullpup-left.jpg
 
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