Pretty much what it says on the title. Suppose that the PoD comes after both parties have nominated their candidates - maybe Nixon does better in the TV debates? - and Kennedy/Johnson loses to Nixon/Lodge. Do the Democrats now pick Symington? Smathers? Humphrey?
Nixon wins in 1960 - whom do the Dems nominate in 1964?
- Thread starter New Cleo Genesis
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Napoleonrules
Banned
Maybe Kennedy runs again. Whether he wins the primaries, I'm not sure, but Nixon lost and ran again. So did Cleveland. So did William Jennings Bryan (4 times? Lost each time). It's not unheard of. Though probably won't ever happen in our times, the 1960s and early 1970s are probably the last time the media will be forgiving enough. I guess it matters if Watergate-like scandal happens before 1964, has Nixon opened China, and how he handled the Cuban Missile Crisis (did it involve a shady backdoor deal that can be scandalized like an Iran-Contra?). Nixon was great at foreign affairs, especially if he has Kissinger. How has he handled the opening of the Vietnam War? Has an open China policy caused us to not get involved on the ground in Vietnam? Nixon butterflies the Vietnam War away (and our loss that hurts our self-confidence for 20-30 years in foreign interference) or does the Vietnam War butterfly away any way for for Nixon to open China?
I actually considered the possibility of a second attempt by Kennedy, but thought it was too obvious. Guess I was wrong.
Napoleonrules
Banned
I've found the obvious answer for an AH TL is usually also the most plausible. Others like to have more fun and go a bit more outrageous just to see where the TL takes them. I think that's fun too, but if you're going for the most realistic ATL then the most obvious is usually the best answer to go with. If you want to add to the PoD that Kennedy loses big or the loss makes him turn hermit, or during Nixon's first term Kennedy's playboying comes out in scandal (maybe Jackie even divorces him), then we can butterfly away any chance of Kennedy being the nominee, that can open the field up quite a bit. I see the other potential candidates being a snore and boring, and barring any scandal (or even with a scandal) from Nixon he probably beats anyone put up against him in 1964. Maybe Johnson runs? Johnson is a shrewd politician and knows how to campaign, a VP nominee then running in a primary on his own is known to happen. Maybe if he made a good name for himself on the losing Kennedy ticket and it wasn't seen as his fault and instead it was Kennedy's, if he makes a sensible argument- "You picked this northern KID for the top of the ticket, if he had been my VP nominee and I was the candidate we'd have won. Now do the right thing and let me show you how a Texan does it!" I think there's a chance.
After Stevenson, I doubt the Democratic establishment would be up for another second try.
I think a lot of it would hinge on what the Nixon administration do on Civil Rights.
I think a lot of it would hinge on what the Nixon administration do on Civil Rights.
If they've got a shot at beating Nixon, I'd say Johnson or Humphrey would be the nominee. Symington or Smathers are possibilities to, but I lean toward Humphrey and LBJ because Humphrey came very close to beating Nixon in 68 OTL, which was a year where the Democrats had all the chips stacked against them, and LBJ based on how ruthless the man was.
The establishment were trying to draft Stevenson for 1960 so it would be plausible for Kennedy to make a second attempt