Nixon pardons himself and other watergate conspirators

wi Nixon had signed a pardon for himself and others just before his resignations took effect/

1) would it be enforced (I think it would)

2) Does this help Ford or just hurt Republicans more
 
1. In the end, probably so. My understanding is that nothing in the Constitution counters that usage of the Presidential pardon power. This is purely a layman's PoV, so I could be wrong.

2. Oh, I assume it would utterly shred Ford and the Republicans for at least an election cycle. That would be the scandalous topper to Watergate, an act so flagrantly crooked that it may well get a Constitutional amendment to change how Presidential pardons work.

That being said, I personally feel Ford pardoning Nixon was the right thing to do with the benefit of hindsight. Ford could at least do it and have a veneer of legitimacy to it, that he was working in the nation's best interests to heal. Nixon pardoning Nixon can't have that, won't have that and will be a gaping political wound.
 

Cook

Banned
There is something truly bizarre in the idea that anyone would find someone pardoning themselves to be anything but the most blatant conflict of interest imaginable. I know that the US president is, in legal terms, an elected emperor and beyond almost all legal bounds, but the idea that he could be impeached and then pardon himself seems too ridiculous even for a document as clumsy as the US constitution.
 
In OTL, Senator Mondale proposed a Constitutional amendment to let Congress override Presidential pardons [1]. It never went anywhere, but if Nixon pardoned himself and Liddy et al, it might.

[1] 93rd Cong., 2nd sess., Congressional Record 120 (September 18, 1974): at 31551.
 
The pardon of the conspirators would be upheld. There are some weak arguments against a self pardon. Unfortunately, courts tend to get the result they want rather than where the law leads, so Nixon may not have his own upheld

Politically, it would save Ford and the Republicans. Ford had very high approval rating before the pardon. People had seen the problem as Nixon's personal failings and were moving on. With the pardon, the blame transerred to ord and the republicans in general
 
They had something like this in... what was it again? Shrimp and Gumbo on the Campaign Trail? Won't go ino too many spoilers, but a lot of people think things over and decides that if someone accepts a pardon it is considered a confession to having committed something. Part of why many people don't accept pardons and why people who are later found innocent by DNA evidence are still put on sex offender lists. Though they tend to do that before the DNA evidence stuff is found. Anyways, a Presidential pardon doesn't cover everything (I think) and could be used to throw someone out of office if enough people agree Something Has To Be Done. Here, since it is when Nixon is resigning anyways, it is seen as a total cooberation of what he was accused of, while before the tapes and such many thought he was getting the short end of the stick. This will also destroy the Republicans for a couple years (they were damaged IOTL from all of this, but they and the Democrats worked together to get a moderate Republican in place to be the next president {to avoid any appearance that it was a coup to get the Democrat Speaker into the White House} and the Republicans turned on Nixon when the evidence found him to be guilty as sin) and remove some authority for supporting law and order. Are the Cubans involved in the break-in at Watergate also getting pardons?
 
They might still impeach him even after the pardon, like what happened to Agnew in Rumsfeldia.
Hmmm, I though Rumsfeldia was the second of the series and Agnew was in the first. Well, been a while since I read it. Anyways, that setting had Agnew public ally accusing Catholic members of Congress of being under the sway of Cardinals and his own cabinet were practically in horror when they heard why Agnew thought the Soviets wouldn't launch nuclear weapons, even if attacked. Basically everyone wanted him out, so they had to work a tricky situation to both make him president and immediately impeach him. Spoiler alert. Everyone should go read that timeline, as you will love the characterizations.
 

Driftless

Donor
Ford burned a lot of political capital and national good will with the pardon; so Nixon giving himself the pardon will focus most of the animosity towards himself. The subsequent state of the economy(oil crisis, etc) does Ford and the Republican's more damage later on though.

I was really angry with Ford for pardoning Nixon at the time - I wanted Nixon in jail for subverting democracy. In hindsight, Ford did the correct and honorable act.
 
Ford burned a lot of political capital and national good will with the pardon; so Nixon giving himself the pardon will focus most of the animosity towards himself. The subsequent state of the economy(oil crisis, etc) does Ford and the Republican's more damage later on though.

I was really angry with Ford for pardoning Nixon at the time - I wanted Nixon in jail for subverting democracy. In hindsight, Ford did the correct and honorable act.
Indeed, both the domestic and international situation would become a lot more stressed. The fact alone that the US president resigned in disgraced to avoid being tried and fired was seen either as a... I really need to keep notes on this stuff. Some people thought it confirmed the American system worked, while some states didn't talk about it much (The most powerful man in a country has underlines who get some men to break into opposition offices and is public ally outed and nearly given the boot? Bad precedent). I believe the Soviets thought it was a political coup of the type that might happen in a communist state and many of their own civilians didn't think the Americans were telling the whole story since... well, wiretaps seemed pretty mild to them compared to people vanishing and no one ranked high enough being prosecuted for corruption.
 

trajen777

Banned
Most likely it would be upheld for both himself and 100% for the others.
It also depends on the pardon, i was very young at the time but i remember that lots of people in Minnesota (very liberal) kind of had the feeling that if
1. He had come forward and said -- this is what happened and i apologize -- much of the steam would have been taken out of the sails : the reason for this was :
a. You have to remember he crushed McGovern in the election
b. Was getting / got us out of Vietnam (this might have changed the collapse of S Vietnam in 75 with more $ to SV)
c. China normalization
2. Much of the further digging into the tapes etc would have never come to light
3. I think his pardon would have hurt him ( i attended a seminar taught by Hubert Humphrey who said the USA people were very forgiving if you say "i screwed up " ) in popularity but it would have been the 10% that hated him even if he walked on water -- the next 30% did not like him and this would have been hardened -- the middle would have moved more against him but after xxx time woudl have moved on to the econ ,and other issues on how things were going
4. Typical of USA politics its difficult for 1 party to win 3 terms

So yes the pardon would be upheld -- the power of the pres would have been somewhat curtailed after from congress -- Nixon would have become less popular -- but depending on what happens to econ etc he would level out -- and Ford would have most likely lost anyway
 
himself and others just before his resignations took effect
Would pardoning the conspirators earlier have harmed the Congressional investigation?
I don't know how important other's testimony was, but early pardons could send the message Nixon is behind them. "I'll pardon you for contempt/perjury."
 

trajen777

Banned
Would pardoning the conspirators earlier have harmed the Congressional investigation?
I don't know how important other's testimony was, but early pardons could send the message Nixon is behind them. "I'll pardon you for contempt/perjury."

Yes it would have, however it comes down to how Nixon handled it withe the public.
 
This would go to the Supreme Court. And frankly, I think it would be found to be an abuse of presidential powers outside the intent of the Constitution when written. The seperation of powers implies that the president does not have the ability to do so, even if not expressly forbidden.
 

trajen777

Banned
This would go to the Supreme Court. And frankly, I think it would be found to be an abuse of presidential powers outside the intent of the Constitution when written. The seperation of powers implies that the president does not have the ability to do so, even if not expressly forbidden.

Not so sure about that --
1. Not sure if the supreme court would take it - and for them to overturn it would be a major overreach on exec power -- they would prob not take the case
2. Congress would need to pass a bill on this and i cant see that passing --

Again it really depends on when this happens --
 

BigBlueBox

Banned
Hmmm, I though Rumsfeldia was the second of the series and Agnew was in the first. Well, been a while since I read it. Anyways, that setting had Agnew public ally accusing Catholic members of Congress of being under the sway of Cardinals and his own cabinet were practically in horror when they heard why Agnew thought the Soviets wouldn't launch nuclear weapons, even if attacked. Basically everyone wanted him out, so they had to work a tricky situation to both make him president and immediately impeach him. Spoiler alert. Everyone should go read that timeline, as you will love the characterizations.
Yes, President Agnew was in Fear, Loathing, and Gumbo.
 
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