Nixon commits suicide-LIVE

Realpolitik

Banned
Oh wow, well this would make OTL 70's look like a time of peace, consensus, and prosperity. Expect to the Democrats to take a hit. HARD. I can see the populace becoming disenchanted with both parties (Republicans for Watergate and Democrats for "killing Nixon") and for an independent candidate like Anderson to become a major player in either '76 or '80. The anti-establishment left will becoming even more hated than it already was and for the anti-establishment right to explode with toxic anger at the "Liberal scum" for driving a president to suicide. I can see attempts by Nixon supporters to try an kill Woodward and Bernstein for "starting the whole damn mess".

On the upside, maybe this well lead to better help for those suffering from mental illness, depression, and suicidal thoughts.

Above all, I see this leading to a VERY anti-political attitude in the USA, far moreso than OTL. Remember-Nixon mentions before he takes lead just how utterly nasty and festering politicians can be, among other things. The full "sausage factory" will be talked about.

A suitable POD would be something involving his family, I bet(Pat says she is leaving him or something), that just causes him to just break down and decide that he wants to end it, and before ending his life, letting go of all his feelings, rather than the semi-dignified exit of OTL.

(Maybe he can make a 1 hour speech, tell the truth about Watergate and emphasize that he is truly sorry and that he ultimately was to blame, but also make sure that his "enemies" don't get away unscathed. Do not underestimate Nixon's vengefulness. Even during a breakdown, his mind probably would unconsciously move. This WILL strike a chord with people-Nixon almost never showed emotion, remember. He's not being the somewhat callous and unemotional Nixon of OTL.)
 
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I'm going to use an example that I know of a president who has killed himself, although not in office.
His name is Roh Moo-hyun.
Famed lawyer, fighter for democracy for decades. He became especially famous in the live trials in the 80s, when he tearfully asks ex-president Chun Doo-hwan "don't you care about the people's money" or something like that for Chun's massive embezzlement scheme.
Democracy ensues, political parties coagulate and fall apart. After many years Roh finally gains power in 2003. It seems it is off to a rosy 4 years.
It became a trainwreck. The Sunshine policy was not helpful at all in bringing the two Koreas together, youth unemployment was increasing, and the charisma of Roh broke under pressure of the press. His identity as a eloquent, down-to-earth lawyer became jeered at and he became more like a clown in a suit. There even was a crisis where the opposition launched a half-assed coup and impeached the president for several days. Although this brought the people together to heartily denounce the opposition party, it still was insufficient to make Roh more popular.
The situation became worse after he left the presidency. His subordinates and family became accused of bribery and embezzlement. A few days after returning to his hometown from being questioned by the police, Roh committed suicide by throwing himself off a small cliff.
The reaction was very different between the political parties. The conservatives still jeered at this fact, claiming that he killed himself because he couldn't face his own sins. The liberals showed solidarity in mourning for Roh; many believed he died after the realisation that, on top of all that was happening to him and his family, his vision of Korea would never be realised.
Of course, Roh's death is much less shock than Nixon's hypothetical actions. But the result would still be similar - the opposition would try to frame him as a crazy man who belonged to a madhouse. The leading government would try to show through this incident that the press had broken the President, and that this tragedy is a example of how the press should never go too far.
 
Considering every single ROK president has left office in disgrace in one form or another, I'm not sure they're the most representative model.

At any rate, I'd expect Reagan wins in 1976 and 1980 if this were to happen. The Democratic Party would just die from this, to the point where I'm not sure when they'd win the Presidency again. They're liable to lose Congress at some point, as well, since all politics being local seems likely to die an earlier death in this atmosphere. They'd probably recover after the end of the Cold War, like OTL (although I'm not sure when that would happen under these circumstances), but I don't see them doing at all well any sooner than that.
 

Realpolitik

Banned
I'm going to use an example that I know of a president who has killed himself, although not in office.
His name is Roh Moo-hyun.
Famed lawyer, fighter for democracy for decades. He became especially famous in the live trials in the 80s, when he tearfully asks ex-president Chun Doo-hwan "don't you care about the people's money" or something like that for Chun's massive embezzlement scheme.
Democracy ensues, political parties coagulate and fall apart. After many years Roh finally gains power in 2003. It seems it is off to a rosy 4 years.
It became a trainwreck. The Sunshine policy was not helpful at all in bringing the two Koreas together, youth unemployment was increasing, and the charisma of Roh broke under pressure of the press. His identity as a eloquent, down-to-earth lawyer became jeered at and he became more like a clown in a suit. There even was a crisis where the opposition launched a half-assed coup and impeached the president for several days. Although this brought the people together to heartily denounce the opposition party, it still was insufficient to make Roh more popular.
The situation became worse after he left the presidency. His subordinates and family became accused of bribery and embezzlement. A few days after returning to his hometown from being questioned by the police, Roh committed suicide by throwing himself off a small cliff.
The reaction was very different between the political parties. The conservatives still jeered at this fact, claiming that he killed himself because he couldn't face his own sins. The liberals showed solidarity in mourning for Roh; many believed he died after the realisation that, on top of all that was happening to him and his family, his vision of Korea would never be realised.
Of course, Roh's death is much less shock than Nixon's hypothetical actions. But the result would still be similar - the opposition would try to frame him as a crazy man who belonged to a madhouse. The leading government would try to show through this incident that the press had broken the President, and that this tragedy is a example of how the press should never go too far.

I know what happened to Roh. I do not mean to cause offense, but this is a far, far graver situation. Not compatible. There had been a Constitutional crisis for over a year, that was causing America to be torn apart. Things weren't getting done, at all. Watergate was HUGE. And this... good Lord! It would send the far right out of control, and the parties would descend into war, possibly.

America is also not used to this kind of thing. This was the culmination of all the radical social changes of the past ten years-Vietnam, race, everything. Whether it's the indictment of a public figure, the loss of innocence about the Presidency, the sheer amount of "black stuff" Nixon is going to reveal is going to shatter America's psyche further(we are weak when it comes to our image of reality), or just seeing blood on the TV-this will be live, in front of millions of viewers, right before the end. (People were thinking about a trial or a possible coup. Rumors spread wildly about what Nixon might do. Thankfully, none of that happened.)

And as I've mentioned, the international fallout could be so much larger. This was still a Cold War world, in which many foreign leaders supported the dead President over Congress and the justice system. What happens if they think Nixon was taken down by a coup and hounded into public suicide? That's something that worries me even more than the bubbling right wing in the US. Dobrynin's memoirs about what Moscow thought of the whole mess are just arguably the most prominent example-men who had Stalin as their formative political experience just could not accept that a leader, one who had not so long ago won a landslide of epic proportions, could honestly be forced out by the people, damn the damage this does to the international scene or to the USA's interests. They could not understand the mechanics of a constitutional, legal process by a Senate, aided by the Supreme Court. Without blood or tanks or anything. It was a very quick turnaround, don't forget. I don't think their minds were capable of conceiving it-there is to this day no parallel in Russian-or Chinese, or Arab-history. It did not make SENSE for them, the official story. All for what they considered to be a minor breach of conduct, at worst?

For the men in Moscow, there had to be something else cooking. I would not be surprised if they start hounding the US Congress. Can you imagine? Mao is also dying soon, and it's no guarantee that Deng takes over yet-that's arguably the scariest thing. Mao is a REALLY capricious man-if Nixon kills himself publicly, and the right guy (someone like Kissinger) doesn't take over afterwards and says the right things, who knows what he might do with the still infant, fragile Sino-US relations? What if he doesn't make Hua the successor or let Deng back into the fray? The Sino-Soviet split is still a very raw wound.

And even without all that, there was the recent troubles in the Middle East, and a rapidly changing relationship with the region. King Faisal thought that Watergate was a Jewish-Bolshevik plot, and while they were nowhere near as crude as Faisal, I'm sure the Shah, Assad and Sadat didn't really "get it" either. Same with the Turks-this is after the Cyprus invasion. This is coming off the heels of the oil crisis, and with the region in a severe state of flux. If they do not like the looks of what happens in Washington... On the other side, there are the Israelis, who are at that point going through a rather interesting political transition of their own. Who knows what might happen if they decide they can't rely on the US in such a state?

I can even see troubles in South America with the juntas, if they still come to power and they feel that the US is having trouble with internal "leftism".

And even our allies were shocked and dismayed that people were taking Watergate this far. (I think this shows that America is special in some good ways). As one example, in West Germany, Brandt had to resign because his aide was a Stasi spy. They thought Watergate was insignificant compared to that. They didn't GET all the comparisons of Nixon to Hitler. They even admitted that it showed how little we truly understood Hitler, or Nixon, or both.

This is HUGE. We might even get a Kissinger quasi-Presidency, just to make sure the world doesn't fall apart.
 
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This could tear the party system apart honestly. Prominent Perot-style independent candidate wins in '76? Ala Gavin in Gumbo...
Or maybe a different character from Gumbo..

RESIZ-CROPgeorge-wallace-Wheelchair.jpg


Or Hell, if Carter fails somehow, maybe this could be governor Moonbeam's chance. The American people would probably be in a rare mood where they would otherwise vote for the unthinkable.


But I still think Carter would get it, but if someone writes the TL of this and they want to mix it up...
 

Realpolitik

Banned
Or maybe a different character from Gumbo..

RESIZ-CROPgeorge-wallace-Wheelchair.jpg


Or Hell, if Carter fails somehow, maybe this could be governor Moonbeam's chance. The American people would probably be in a rare mood where they would otherwise vote for the unthinkable.


But I still think Carter would get it, but if someone writes the TL of this and they want to mix it up...

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

I think we have a possible dystopian thread here... combine that with the foreign policy troubles I mentioned, and the increased partisanship/hatred and decaying economy domestically.
 
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I can even see troubles in South America with the juntas, if they still come to power and they feel that the US is having trouble with internal "leftism".

In my head I suddenly had a vision of a Chilean Secret Service agent starting a coup in the US to restore a conservative president. Attacking helicopters, snipers and all the good stuff.
:D
 
"

Vargas did it 20 years before in Brazil.

Ok, he didn't do it live, but it was, indeed, very traumatic for the country. A former dictator who was increasingly being seen as corrupt and bad for the nation managed to save his image by pulling this off.

"Deixo a vida para entrar na história.

Ironically, it created a whole mythology in Brazil about the traditional RIGHT-wing media being conspiracy-prone and naturally opposed to "popular" politicians
 

Realpolitik

Banned
In my head I suddenly had a vision of a Chilean Secret Service agent starting a coup in the US to restore a conservative president. Attacking helicopters, snipers and all the good stuff.
:D

The President would die of irony. :p

Well, I had more had in mind less control in Washington over what exactly they do, within their own territory. Operation Condor happens in a couple years, don't forget, and believe it or not, it could get worse. I'm a little worried about how out of control the situation might get if they are paranoid about what has happened in the US, especially considered our... "involvement" down there. Again-dictatorships perceive things through their own lenses, even if it doesn't quite make sense to us.

But, there is also this. DINA was not afraid to bite the hand that fed it, you know. Nasty bastards.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letelier_assassination

At any rate, it's hard to see foreign policy not be effected by this.
 
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Realpolitik

Banned
Vargas did it 20 years before in Brazil.

Ok, he didn't do it live, but it was, indeed, very traumatic for the country. A former dictator who was increasingly being seen as corrupt and bad for the nation managed to save his image by pulling this off.

"Deixo a vida para entrar na história.

Ironically, it created a whole mythology in Brazil about the traditional RIGHT-wing media being conspiracy-prone and naturally opposed to "popular" politicians

Allende's reputation is largely thanks to his violent death, as well.
 
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