NFLWI: The Toronto Bills

Don't really think Toronto would support it.

They are a very bandwagon city unless it is the Leafs... the Jays and Raptors have proven this.

Those Bills games in Toronto did terrible attendance numbers.
 
Once upon a time this may have been the case, but today I highly doubt it. Toronto already has legions of NFL fans, and while it is indeed possible that might kill the Argos, it also has the (IMO equally possible) possibility of massively growing it. The CFL already acts as a funnel of many players (and some front office staff) to the NFL, and while the NFL is more popular in Toronto and Vancouver, the CFL rules in the Western Provinces, and both the recently-reborn Ottawa CFL team and the Alouettes in Montreal are having little difficulties. Considering that and the fact that the CFL season is 2/3 over before the NFL kicks off, I highly, highly doubt the Bills moving to Toronto would wreck the CFL.

Beyond that, the most major problem for the Bills in Toronto is the lack of a suitable place to play. The Rogers Centre (where the Bills in Toronto series was played) is fine for exhibitions, but its too small for a permanent NFL team home - it's designed for baseball, and is smaller by nearly 10,000 seats than the smallest NFL stadium. Building a new stadium in Toronto would be tough owing to the NFL's unwillingness to allow owners to finance new stadiums. The new owner of the Bills in Toronto would have to build a new stadium, at a cost of a billion dollars or more, and considering how the province got burned on the Rogers Centre (which opened in 1989), public financing hasn't got a chance in hell.

So, a prospective Bills owner, in addition to dropping over a billion dollars on the team, also has to dumb that much again for a new stadium. If Toronto had won the 2008 Olympics, this idea might work by having the Bills reside in Olympic Stadium after the games, but without that push, the idea is a nonstarter for that idea alone. And that's before one also remembers that the NFL makes its money by TV contracts, and the Bills moving to Toronto almost certainly ends up being a net loss for TV ratings, which is NOT going to be accepted by the NFL, ever.

I was going on the OP's principle of 'what if it happened' ... presuming it happened when it was rumored, in the 80s/90s. Now, I'm not sure it would bring down the league (or even happen), but I feel pretty strongly that the Bills would outdraw the Argos, even though they'd begin at different times of the year.
 
Once upon a time this may have been the case, but today I highly doubt it. Toronto already has legions of NFL fans, and while it is indeed possible that might kill the Argos, it also has the (IMO equally possible) possibility of massively growing it. The CFL already acts as a funnel of many players (and some front office staff) to the NFL, and while the NFL is more popular in Toronto and Vancouver, the CFL rules in the Western Provinces, and both the recently-reborn Ottawa CFL team and the Alouettes in Montreal are having little difficulties. Considering that and the fact that the CFL season is 2/3 over before the NFL kicks off, I highly, highly doubt the Bills moving to Toronto would wreck the CFL.

Beyond that, the most major problem for the Bills in Toronto is the lack of a suitable place to play. The Rogers Centre (where the Bills in Toronto series was played) is fine for exhibitions, but its too small for a permanent NFL team home - it's designed for baseball, and is smaller by nearly 10,000 seats than the smallest NFL stadium. Building a new stadium in Toronto would be tough owing to the NFL's unwillingness to allow owners to finance new stadiums. The new owner of the Bills in Toronto would have to build a new stadium, at a cost of a billion dollars or more, and considering how the province got burned on the Rogers Centre (which opened in 1989), public financing hasn't got a chance in hell.

So, a prospective Bills owner, in addition to dropping over a billion dollars on the team, also has to dumb that much again for a new stadium. If Toronto had won the 2008 Olympics, this idea might work by having the Bills reside in Olympic Stadium after the games, but without that push, the idea is a nonstarter for that idea alone. And that's before one also remembers that the NFL makes its money by TV contracts, and the Bills moving to Toronto almost certainly ends up being a net loss for TV ratings, which is NOT going to be accepted by the NFL, ever.

The Argos are one of the CFL's most important franchises and it's doubtful whether the CFL can survive without them. Given how much effort has been put into keeping the team afloat in recent years, I think the CFL knows this.

Furthermore I think one thing that is missing from these discussions is the age demographic of CFL fans. Despite the efforts of the new commissioner CFL fans have been getting older and older on average with more and more young people gravitating towards the better marketed and frankly more talented NFL teams. Who knows, maybe his new initiatives work, but in all likelihood the demographic situation doesn't look pretty for the CFL in OTL.

Now, let's change the situation a bit, because you're totally right with the Stadium. Let's say that Toronto wins the 2008 bid and gets a stadium that's roughly NFL capacity. Then tweak the Bills' performance (avoid Chan Gailey for a start...) and have them make the move. IF the Bills can win, I could see them being adopted by Torontonians and settling down.

As for the TV ratings, I'm not sure how relocating one of their troubled franchises in one of their smallest markets would negatively affect them. Again, assuming that the Bills can put together a solid team I think the Toronto Bills could easily bring in far more TV ratings than the Bills could ever hope to. Canadian viewers are already a key target demographic for the NFL, look at what's going on with Seattle in Vancouver. "12" flags permeate the city during the playoffs, sports talk radio all but ignores the BC Lions, Seahawks players like Russel Wilson and Richard Sherman do regular charity work north of the border etc. Wouldn't a Toronto team be an extension of these efforts to grab Canadian viewers?

So, let's say the Bills manage to put together a solid team and move to Toronto's Olympic Stadium sometime around 2010. They're competitive enough to challenge the Patriots for the AFC East and perhaps even make a playoff run. The appeal of the NFL in such a scenario would be massive for Torontonians who would see it as yet another opportunity to entrench themselves as a world class North American City. Though there is considerable backlash from CFL supporters, nothing is done to prevent the move.

In such a scenario, the CFL probably sees an initial bump from patriotic fervor, but poor talent and better NFL marketing means that this bump trails off after a year or two as more and more younger fans in two critical markets Vancouver and Toronto gravitate towards the NFL. With revenues falling, I wonder if the CFL doesn't decide to follow the old maxim "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" and make the necessary changes to establish itself as the developmental league for the NFL.
 
If the Bills do move from Buffalo to Toronto - no doubt that they would change their nickname

So a question would be, what would the new name be?

Thought provokers would be:
Toronto Trappers (celebrate Canada's fur trapping history, would not be popular with PETA)
Toronto Rough Riders (need the second nickname in Canada, each with its own spelling)
Toronto Destroyers
Toronto Blitz or Blizzard
Toronto Towers
Toronto Generals

I like Toronto Blitz

BTW - I am a huge CFL fan, so I hope the CFL would stay as is with an NFL team in Toronto. Perhaps the CFL tries the US market again with the Niagara Argonauts
 
...
Toronto Rough Riders (need the second nickname in Canada, each with its own spelling)
...

Actually nobody can use Rough Riders again - Saskatchewan has blackballed that. The new Ottawa team tried, were rebuffed.

Speaking of buff ... about Toronto Buffaloes?
 
The Toronto Buffaloes would be a good name. Keep the colors or go back to the classic Buffalo Bills uniforms of the 1990's with blue jersey's and the red helmet with the charging Buffalo.

Toronto could also keep the Argonauts. Should be able to support both teams.
 
Why would there be any move at all to keep them out? Canada never seemed to mind the Bluejays, Expos, Raptors and Grizzlies. Why would an NFL team be so controversial, especially since the CFL play arena football, they wouldn't be cutting into the same marketshare.

Or does this have to do with Canada not wanting the first NFL team from Canada to be the Bills? Because is so, I can sympathize :p

The CFL don't play Arena Football. And the Toronto games weren't a big success.
 
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